No shit they cant make a good $500 lap top, Apple cant make a good any thing when it comes to hardware. Just look at the prices of their computers and Ipods when compared to competitors. When are people going to realize that instead of waiting for Apple to release their own mediocre over priced netbook they should just get an NC-10 and install Ubuntu on it?

@Zealot:

God knows Steve has disagreed with just about everything I have written here on MobilitySite, and that is great. He keeps me on my toes, he challanges me, he keeps me honest…that is the way this whole process is supposed to work.

That's a good attitude. As long as disagreement is expressed without making it personal and backed up with good reasoning, people should take it the way you do.

However, I don't disagree about everything you write. (I'm agreeing with you above. :D) When I agree with somebody, I just don't feel much need to post unless I have something to add. "Me, too" posts are boring.

Personally, I don't mind news with no opinions, especially if it's not something I've seen 100 other places. But opinions are what keep a site interesting. I bet if you look at trends, opinion posts will end up with more comments per post than straight news posts.

Steve

My role here is to talk about UMPC, Netbooks and mini tablets. So I took from that interview the part relative to me. We have other editors talking about those other topics. If they decided not to post about the iPhone sales my only guess is that they have a good reason to do not post about it. In another hand, I post about those topics that are interesting for me, where I have something to say. I do not have anything to say about the iPhone. I do not own one. I do not like AT&T.; I left AT&T; and broke any business that I had with that company and will try at all cost to stay away from it the rest of my life.

So even if the iPhone is the last phone, it's just not for me. Taking all that in consideration, I just do not follow any news relative to iPhone unless there is a software for iPhone that I like to check to see what is going on within that field.

You make a good point Doogald concerning the fact that this earnings call was not covered here at MobilitySite. I as a news editor certainly looked at the news regarding it and decided not to make a post about it, simply because I personally didn't have anything to say that would add anything to the news story, and that story was already being covered in exacting detail by every news site and a few thousand tech blogs. I personally try and follow the rule of thumb that if I don;t feel I have someting at least a little bit new to say about a topic, I steer clear of it...this was one of those cases.

Beyond that, can you honestly say that you feel Apple news is underreported on the net?

Z

MobilitySite is surely allowed to post whatever they wish. I just think that it's funny that you wonder why your Apple stories generate a lot of comments when, as I said, you take an incredibly positive quarterly result phone call and pull an obscure quote to try to prove a point that may be simply a misinterpretation. And this about 6 months after an incredibly one-sided post, filled with inaccuracies, listing 30 reasons why WM is better than the iPhone.

This is MobilitySite, Apple makes one of the most popular smartphones - a successful mobile device - they report unexpectedly positive results, and not one story on MobilitySite about that particular piece of news? Japan's banking crisis had more coverage this week on MobilitySite than the iPhone's quarterly results?

Sure, I understand that MobilitySite is more interested in WM devices, and apparently a lot of the editors here dislike Apple for some reason, but surely this news deserved more coverage than a throwaway line in the conference call?

I guess the takeaway here, guys, is that you have Apple customers among your readers (though when it comes to phones, I happen to use a WM phone myself), and at least if I see something that seems over-the-top biased, I'll call you on it. And if you are posting just to Apple bash, knowing that you'll get a lot of comments, isn't that what we call trolling?

Do you HONESTLY want MobilitySite to be all news and nothing but news? No blog is all news, we leave that to newspapers. They pay a lot of people money to go out and bring in unbiased facts. That is not what a blog is. Whether it is a one man Movable Type rag or a megablog like Gizmodo or Engadget, a blog is all about OPINION. Readers can comment if they disagree with the opinions of the writers and state their own...in fact they are encouraged to. In fact most writers thrive on that kind of give and take. God knows Steve has disagreed with just about everything I have written here on MobilitySite, and that is great. He keeps me on my toes, he challanges me, he keeps me honest...that is the way this whole process is supposed to work.

At MobilitySite we have been working hard to the last few month to include MORE opinions and more original posts. Almost nothing is posted here that doesn;t include the viewpoint of the author and that is by design. Chris has worked hard to seek out writers with strong, informed opinions who have a wide variety of interests and viewpoints regarding mobile tech. No money is being made off this, we write for the love of the art and an appretiation of technology...and we are GOING to have opinions. Many times, you are going to disagree with those opinions. That's what blogging is. Why would you want a boring old newspaper in place of a lively, civil argument about cool gadgets?

Bring on the debate, I'll make popcorn.

Z

I just gonna add that if you write an article, note or post and you don´t have an opinion on it then you just copied and pasted. I could be right or wrong in my opinion. But at least I have one, which to me is even more important than be right or wrong.

Thanks Steve!

@Khris:

In my opinion, if you aren’t able to write an unbiased article, you shouldn’t have your works published. There’s a time and place for opinions and attitude, but when people are looking for unbiased information, check them at the door.

For somebody who comes off as strongly opinionated as you do, that's a surprising thing to say.

First, I think Frank has written many unbiased articles.

Second, who said people here are only looking for unbiased information? You? And where is this place for opinions and attitudes? Relegated to the forums? Why?

Finally, saying somebody shouldn't have their works published because they're biased pretty much violates freedom of the press. While this is a private site, and isn't really required to provide freedom, Chris has decided that Frank has something worthwhile to say. If you don't like it, you know where the Close button is.

Steve

@doogald

I’m not saying that Apple will create a similar market for Netbooks in the future, but they are rarely on the bleeding edge when new market segments are created.

But Apple used to be. They created one of the first consumer-friendly PCs (the Apple ][). They created one of the first commercial GUI computers (the Lisa). They created one of the first powerful PDAs (the Newton). They created one of the first personal laser printers (the LaserWriter, I think).

Yes, they still make cool products, but when did they become followers, not leaders?

@Julie:

Well you could also interpret the statement another way too…that is, that Apple has tried but just isn’t capable of creating an affordable $500 machine that isn’t junk (even though its competitors have managed to produce a quality product for less than or equal to $500).

I think that's the only right way to parse it. Apple's processes and procedures don't allow them to make a good $500 netbook.

To be fair, English may not be Frank's first language, so his parsing may have been off. Of course, you could argue that flaming a misinterpreted statement is attacking a straw man, but I think he made an honest mistake.

@Dissonance:

I wish we could keep news, not op-ed on the front page.

I completely disagree. While I want a lot of news, I also like to hear what people think about things. Analysis and criticism is important. By your logic, any review that contained a score pretty much wouldn't belong on the home page because scores are usually quite subjective.

I suppose you could have separate blogs for News, Opinions, Reviews, etc., but that would make following the site more difficult.

Steve

At the risk of beating a dead horse in this thread, there is another way to read this. In the recent past, when Apple has introduced new products (the iPhone and MacBook Air come to mind), Steve Jobs has said at the introduction that Apple had been working on the products for years before they were introduced. Before that he very clearly poo-pooed the idea of Apple creating an iPod Phone when asked about it, to give the iPhone as an example, though clearly in hindsight they were actively working on it.

I think that he makes statements like this to hide Apple's R&D work on potential products, figuring that it is better to leave potential competitors guessing at their intentions. There is no point in letting your competition know what you are or not working on in your R&D labs.

@ctitanic

You do have the right to criticize someone's opinion, but you don't have the right to say that someone else is not allowed to express their opinion, and this is exactly how your original statement came across.


@Dissonance

Your comment was very well put, and I completely agree that the op-ed have no place on the front page. Unfortunately this has been a growing trend lately and there are some which take it too far. I find myself coming here less and less because of this.

I would imagine that the head of BMW probably considers the Ford Focus to be a junk car (whether he says it out loud or not). Does this make it a bad car? No. Does it stop Ford from selling a crapload of them? No.

While the head of BMW has not, to my knowledge, said this, he probably hasn't been asked if BMW has plans to come out with a < $15k automobile. If asked that question, I'd wager that the response would be very similar to Job's.

I love my PC. I love my wife's Mac. I love this site for the awesome coverage of mobile news. I can't stand the anti-Apple posturing that happens on here sometimes. Save it for the forums. I wish we could keep news, not op-ed on the front page.

$.02 deposited.

Good point Radimus...these days 400 biucks will get you a nice piece of Netbook.

However, that sort of market isn't Apple's and the argument that Apple doesn't have the bulk discounts required to get componants cheaply enough to cut the margin that fine made by Julie and Doogald is very persuasive. This is sounding more and more like Jobs not expressive himself well, which he has been known to do especially in an off the cuff situation like an earnings conference.

As for the iPhone as a Netbook, it is almost a MID in some ways...and I use my Touch as a PSP. A bigger, stronger iPhone with a slide out keyboard...has possibilities.

hmmmm..

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Subtotal $399

Oops, I guess Julie made the same point before I hit submit.

Just to add to what I already commented, Steve Jobs actual quote was:

“We don’t know how to make a $500 computer that’s not a piece of junk and our DNA will not let us *ship* that.” He was talking about Apple, not Apple's customers. And he was not talking about Netbooks at the time - he was answering a question about Apple making cheaper computers. Lastly, he did try to say that the iPhone was a Netbook of sorts. That last one deserves a guffaw.

Just from an analytical point of view, the other way to parse this comment is with the realization that Apple does not have the benefit of a high market share for their products, so they would not be able to benefit as much from economies of scale that other companies enjoy. So, rather than calling other company's products junk, the comment can be read to say that, because of the way that they run the company, they cannot make a competitively priced, $500 PC without sacrificing quality that will affect the perception of the brand.

I agree with Julie on this...Apple will not want to go the Asus route and create something percieved as a "budget" device. Sure they could I guess, but they have no earthly reason to.

As I have said in many posts...Apple is selling "lifestyle" more then technology. They will go not want to even be percieved as "skimping" on a device. Apple computers are see as luxe items, and Apple likes it that way.

As for Apple's caution...how long did it take them to make a smartphone? Apple will sit back and let companies like Asus and Dell and HP do the heavy lifting establishing the game, then count on their fanbase and techpress buzz to allow them to come in and change it.

Z

Julie, the demand is there! Ask Asus about it! So that leave only one thing that "Apple has tried but just isn’t capable of creating an affordable $500 machine that isn’t junk"

Well you could also interpret the statement another way too...that is, that Apple has tried but just isn't capable of creating an affordable $500 machine that isn't junk (even though its competitors have managed to produce a quality product for less than or equal to $500).

But, reading between the lines, the statement probabbly really means....we'll wait and see if there's any sustainable demand.

Khris you are right.

Steve Job has the right to voice his opinion and say what ever he wants. The same right I have to criticize his opinion. ;)

@ ctitanic

Who are you to judge other peoples vernacular? People place different meanings on individual words. The word "Junk" could mean any of the following:

-Garbage
-Dilapidated equipment
-Poorly constructed
-Not something I would buy

You're taking the literal meaning of the word without any kind of support beyond the original quoted words.

If Steve (or anyone) wants to call the current netbook offerings "Junk", that's completely their right as it's their opinion. For you to come along and say they don't have the right to voice their opinion is completely absurd.

@ doogald

I don't think it's necessarily that all the Apple stories are negative. I really feel it depends on who the writeup originates from. Some writers can be very impartial and present the facts, as well as convey their opinion without intertwining them. Then there's others who treat their opinion as gospel and proclaim it like the town crier.

In my opinion, if you aren't able to write an unbiased article, you shouldn't have your works published. There's a time and place for opinions and attitude, but when people are looking for unbiased information, check them at the door.

I agree with you, but the fact that you do something well does not give you the right to call others work "junk".

As most readers know know, I am not an Apple backer by and large, but I for one would love to see an Apple MID or Netbook.

It would certainly be pricey, but it would also be well designed, innovative, of very good quality and likely improve the category in general by raising the bar.

Take the Jesus Phone as an example. I don't like the iPhone personally, but it certainly raised the bar regarding smartphones. I would love to see Apple to that in this category, and I may even buy one of them as I did the iPod Touch.

Just because I don't drink the Kool aid doesn't mean I don't respect the things the Apple does right.

Z

You have to admit that if I posted this negative story is because Steve Job has made a "negative" comment about a new market share that has proven to be something that people really wanted to have: a cheap small laptop. The fact that they don't know how to make anything cheap does not give him the right to call other's work junk. Or what consumers buy Junk.

I think that you get a lot of comments when you post Apple stories because the stories are generally negative. Apple posts record quarterly results, including an incredible amount of revenue that will be deferred over the next seven quarters, have apparently surpassed RIM after 5 quarters in the smartphone market, and this is the story that you pull out the quarterly results?

Ok...

When Steve Jobs says that it is "not in our DNA", he is talking about his company, not his customers. I will agree that Apple is a company that makes premium products at premium prices.

As for Netbooks, Jobs also said, "We'll see how the netbook evolves, and we have some pretty interesting ideas if it does evolve." Remember that the iPod was not the first MP3 player, and was, in fact, years after the first models were introduced. I'm not saying that Apple will create a similar market for Netbooks in the future, but they are rarely on the bleeding edge when new market segments are created.