Axim X51v can't "see" Bluetooth GlobalSat BT-338

axjax · 02-27-07, 10:51 AM

I see that some other folks are having problems with their wired GPS devices, but I haven't seen a suggested "fix" for those of us who are having problems with bluetooth GPS units.

In my case, my setup (see sig. below) was working fine until last week when out of the blue it is stuck on the "Can't Find a Valid GPS Signal" page when I'm trying to get it working. Otherwise, the Axim is working just fine. Its just when I try to run TomTom 5.

One question for Jake and whomever else are the resident GPS geniuses :) is that when you try to configure the GPS, should there be a weird looking "port" or whatever it is with a bunch of weird characters, question marks and colons in the selection panel? I seem to remember something about a "Russian" entry of some sort and I don't know if I'm crazy or not!

I'm thinking that when I did a hard reset several weeks ago and flashed the ROM to A12, that might've had some part in this mess up? But the GPS did in fact work just fine for a few weeks after the ROM "upgrade" so who knows? I don't know if its related, but when I bring the X51v out to the car after charging all night... and plug it in the power supply from the cigarette lighter... I sometimes get a corrupt screen where there's vertical lines and nothing else. If you do a soft reset, then everything is fine.

But my bigger issue is getting the GPS back to working as since I do home inspections and related sales work... I need decent directions!!! Thank gawd for google maps right now.

JakeRich · 02-27-07, 11:19 AM

Read this. Follow the link. Fix the weird characters. Might help.

axjax · 03-01-07, 10:03 AM

I followed that link... which is all about a Hard-Wired GPS and not a bluetooth unit. But I did go into the registry and eliminate the Russian characters... and replaced that with "Serial Cable On COM1".

I'll give it a shot today but if anyone else is actually using a Bluetooth GPS, an X51v, and TomTom5... when you configure and get the screen that reads:

GPS si connected to:
Native IR
Com3
BT UART on COM5:
serial cable on COM1:

So which one are you selecting?

F2504x4 · 03-01-07, 09:28 PM

Try removing the battery for a few days, afterwards you might get lucky and the unit will reset it self, i had this issue with my 236 BT. It seemed that the BT transmission become to fast for the Ax to understand it.

Give it try , maybe it will work for you as well as it did for me.

axjax · 03-02-07, 09:38 AM

At this point I'll try anything short of tossing the GPS and buying a new one. But I really think I've got port issues and I don't know how to get rid of the six ports that are showing up in TomTom 5's configure screen.

axjax · 03-16-07, 03:21 PM

Well... I tried the battery removal deal for 24 hours and still nothing. Both items are flashing blue leds, but absolutely no signal to the Axim checking with both TT5 in the configure screen and even if I use GlobalSat's GPS Info. I'm still convinced its probably a port issue, but nobody here seems to know how to reset all the ports to default or none so you can either use the right one or install a port. This system did work for almost a year, so I know its capable.

F2504x4 · 03-16-07, 03:28 PM

I just re-read my post to you , I should have said 72 hours or longer, inorder to get the it to reset..try that and see if it works...:)

JakeRich · 03-16-07, 03:43 PM

I don't have an X51, but however you do it, disable the gps management software that came with it. Pair up the GPS to the Ax manuall, then the GPS should be on COM7. Ignore anything else TT tells you, get to BT on COM7 (after you do the disabling thing).

axjax · 03-21-07, 01:47 PM

Yeah... well I appreciate your help Jake, but I think we need someone who has a X51v who is actually running a BT-338 that can compare settings, software and what have you. I'm not that concerned about TomTom at this point... I'm just trying to use GPSInfo to confirm that (a) the Axim and the BT338 are communicating (NOT), and (b) that the BT338 isn't actual dead or whatever. The only selection I can find with reference to the WM5 GPS utility is whether or not you want the GPS/COM Ports managed automatically. I don't have that box checked.

I need to confirm that COM7 actually is the right COM port for the BT338, and then I need to go through the pairing procedure, and I need to know what "New Outgoing Port" and "New Incoming Port" are all about and whether they should even be showing up on the screen.

When I delete all the devices and seem to be starting from scratch, the Axim does a scan and within seconds IDs BT-GPS-31C8B2 in the "Select a Bluetooth Device" screen. I then enter the standard GlobalSat passkey of "0000" and hit "NEXT" which brings up the "Partnership Settings" screen which shows a window asking you to "Select services to use from this device". Under that line is a check box with "Serial Port" next to it. You click on "FINISH" and you have the New Partnership established with ?BT-GPS-31C8B2 highlighted.

Next, after saving all that... I open the GPSInfo utility where I have the choice of COM PORTS, BAUD RATE via drop-down menus, and live buttons for "SCAN" and "STARTGPS", and the "COLD START" grey'd out. Click on the SCAN button and nothing happens, but click the "START" button and then the scan button goes grey, and the Start GPS button changes to "Close GPS" and the "Cold Start" goes active as well as the VTG, WAAS, and PowerSave checkboxes.

I seem to recall GlobalSAT telling everyone to use 38400 as the selected Baud Rate. So hitting the Cold Start button prompts a:

$PSRF
...OK

On the display... but switching to the GPS Info tab normally shows the Date, Time, Direction, Speed, Status and so on...along with the cluster of satellites to the left. In mine... there's nothing in the radial section of the screen, and no information next to the Date, Time, Direction, etc. indicators.

At this point, I throw my hands up in the air. :(

Bikegeek · 03-21-07, 08:00 PM

I'm running the BT-338 with TT6 with no problems. It pairs fine (shows up as BT-GPS-3377F0).

<<I need to confirm that COM7 actually is the right COM port for the BT338, and then I need to go through the pairing procedure, and I need to know what "New Outgoing Port" and "New Incoming Port" are all about and whether they should even be showing up on the screen.>>

Yup, COM7 and the screen shows the 338 as the first device, then New Outgoing and then New Incoming Port. I do have the box checked for manage GPS in the GPS settings. The first screen I have COM6 selcted as the GPS Program port and on the 2nd screen (Hardware) I have COM7 as the port and 33600 as the baud rate.

Hope that helps.

JakeRich · 03-21-07, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by axjax

Yeah... well I appreciate your help Jake, but I think we need someone who has a X51v who is actually running a BT-338 that can compare settings, software and what have you. I'm not that concerned about TomTom at this point... I'm just trying to use GPSInfo to confirm that (a) the Axim and the BT338 are communicating (NOT), and (b) that the BT338 isn't actual dead or whatever. The only selection I can find with reference to the WM5 GPS utility is whether or not you want the GPS/COM Ports managed automatically. I don't have that box checked.

I need to confirm that COM7 actually is the right COM port for the BT338, and then I need to go through the pairing procedure, and I need to know what "New Outgoing Port" and "New Incoming Port" are all about and whether they should even be showing up on the screen.

When I delete all the devices and seem to be starting from scratch, the Axim does a scan and within seconds IDs BT-GPS-31C8B2 in the "Select a Bluetooth Device" screen. I then enter the standard GlobalSat passkey of "0000" and hit "NEXT" which brings up the "Partnership Settings" screen which shows a window asking you to "Select services to use from this device". Under that line is a check box with "Serial Port" next to it. You click on "FINISH" and you have the New Partnership established with ?BT-GPS-31C8B2 highlighted.

Ok so far, but at this point you still haven't actually started communications. Hence, the "?" in the icon. Tap and hold the icon until a menu opens, then tap "Connect" and the "?" should change to a pair of green arrows pointing to each other "-><-". Now you are connected! That is what the two arrows are showing, so until you see them, you aren't connected.

Quote:

Next, after saving all that... I open the GPSInfo utility where I have the choice of COM PORTS, BAUD RATE via drop-down menus, and live buttons for "SCAN" and "STARTGPS", and the "COLD START" grey'd out. Click on the SCAN button and nothing happens, but click the "START" button and then the scan button goes grey, and the Start GPS button changes to "Close GPS" and the "Cold Start" goes active as well as the VTG, WAAS, and PowerSave checkboxes.

I seem to recall GlobalSAT telling everyone to use 38400 as the selected Baud Rate. So hitting the Cold Start button prompts a:

$PSRF
...OK

On the display... but switching to the GPS Info tab normally shows the Date, Time, Direction, Speed, Status and so on...along with the cluster of satellites to the left. In mine... there's nothing in the radial section of the screen, and no information next to the Date, Time, Direction, etc. indicators.

At this point, I throw my hands up in the air. :(

Three things: 1) You aren't connected, so all of what you see on GPS Info is useless and wrong. It never sees the receiver so it never really does anything.

2) BAUD rate is immaterial. The BT connection will be at one speed, the serial connection can be at a different one. Leave them all at whatever default was and they'll all figure it out for you automagically.

3) COLD starts are the longest. They can take 5-10 minutes or more. You get no satellites on the radial section because with a COLD start the receiver erases everything it knew and starts out blank. It has to hear a satellite to even know what the time is, then it has to listen for an almanac, then an ephemeris and then it can calculate where the satellites are in relation to the Earth. It still doesn't know where it is, but it then can listen for satellites to announce who they are. From the list of stations it can hear, it can start to do some calculations on where it might be. That's when you'll get the satellites on the radial section of the screen, and the date/time. When it does finally get a fix calculated, the rest of the screen will start to update.

And all of this assumes it can actually hear the signals from the satellites. Indoors it may not be that reliable.

The only additional factor on the WM5 machines is the utility that is provided to manage GPS data for you if you want to redirect from COM7 to some other port and to allow more than one application to see the data at a time. I don't know the specifics of that utility, but the base GPS work is pretty much the same as on the X50 series. I think the utility is very much like GPSGate, which I do use, but again, I still don't have an X51.

If you want to use that utility this thread has the steps to set up a GPS receiver with that software. The steps will be the same for the GlobalSat as he listed for the Visiontac

Given I have no X51, you can ignore all of this, if you want. Just trying to help.

axjax · 03-21-07, 11:11 PM

Jake... Believe me... I appreciate your help. I'm inside and just tried doing all this and I get one satellite (#26) which appears at the 12 o'clock position. But at least the clock shows the time... so maybe we're on to something. I have a long trip in the morning heading up towards Vermont, so I'll charge everything fully tonight and keep the GPS plugged in in the car. It should have an hour or more to find all the sats.

And BikeGeek... thank you too. I appreciate it that you guys haven't given up. I was tempted to put everything on eBay this weekend and just go out and buy a dedicated GPS. But I'm going to keep trying because I can't believe that either unit is defective... I treat both with kid gloves.

JakeRich · 03-22-07, 10:04 AM

OK, report back on it. A couple of things...when it's in the cold fix cycle, it "parks" all of the satellites it hears at 12 oclock on the radar display until it knows where they are. You see, until it knows where it is, the receiver can't calculate where the sats are in relation to it. So when it starts to hear the sats, it just parks them all at the same place, which you can't see as the stack only shows the one on top. When it gets a rough fix, even if it doesn't "trust" it yet, it can spread the satellites out on the radar for you.

Also, if you fire it up and then immediately move, that cold fix will be delayed somewhat. The reason is that the rough fix keeps moving so it thinks the data is still unreliable. If you sit for a couple of minutes outside, it should get that first fix in 5-10 minutes or less, after which the subsequent "warm" and "hot" fixes will be much faster. Take a look at the two tutorials in my sig if you want more theory on how all this magic works.

Unfortunately, GPS is not a "plug and play" option yet for PDA/Smartphones. The All-in-Ones are simpler because that is all they do, so there isn't any BT link or com port to negotiate--they hard wire all that in.

axjax · 03-22-07, 01:31 PM

Jake...

Still no joy. :rolling: I made the trip and had it plugged in all the way, so it was running for about 3 hours. Using GlobalSat's GPSInfo utility, I can switch to the Setup tab and watch all those codes scream by... they look something like this:

$GPGSA, A,3,2,2,2,2222
$GPGSV,,,,,,,,,*1E
$GPGSA, A,3,2,2,2,2222
$GPGSV,,,,,,,,,*1E
$GPGSA, A,3,2,2,2,2222
$GPGSV,,,,,,,,,*1E
$GPGSA, A,3,2,2,2,2222
$GPGSV,,,,,,,,,*1E

I just duped a couple of lines... there's all kinds of different info on each line. But the whole screen is filled with this info and its scrolling by fairly quickly. I have not checked the boxes for VTG, WAAS, or PowerSave.

I'm using COM7 and the Baud Rate is 38400. I switch over to the Info tab and she's still showing #26 at the 12 o'clock position. I have been back in the shop now for over an hour and I have the BT-338 in my window, and the Axim about 4 feet away on my desk and its still streaming data but has not "found" the sats. Down below in the screen the individual sats show up like this:

20 10 25 27 03 31 24 15 16 05 01

They are in a light green color on the display, like they are not quite active. I think they would normally be black. If I click on my TomTom icon, and go to the "GPS STATUS" screen where I can also click on "Configure" I can see a note saying "No Valid GPS Signal". Click Configure and I can confirm that TT has COM7 selected as being connected to the GPS.

I notice that my Axim's clock is screwed up and I can't seem to correct it long-term. Wonder if that's having anything to do with it. Does it sound like we're some weird step away?

JakeRich · 03-22-07, 01:44 PM

Nope, you're connected to the GPS just fine. All those $ statements are the NMEA statements of data it is sending to the Ax. If you have all the satellites at the 12 o'clock position and the data streams are empty (as in the sample) then either the GPS receiver has a receiver failure or the signals are too low. GPS wants an OUTDOOR signal, clear sky. Even in a window, it can only see a part of the sky and that part is blocked by the building. For that first fix, it really does need to be outside, not moving.

TT can't see the fix data because only one application can see the data at a time. Your utility has it, so TT can't. Unless you actually kill the utility application completely, it just goes into background and keeps the port tied up. The GPS utility with WM5 can redirect that data and allow more than one app to use it. Now that you know you are connected with BT, try doing the same experiment outside in an area clear of obstacles. Watch the data stream.

In GPS201, I said,

Quote:

$GPRMC,224000.0,A,3852.89349,N,07722.09237,W,000.0 ,311.5,140605,09.5,W,A*31
$GPGGA,224001.0,3852.89350,N,07722.09230,W,1,06,1. 21,00152,M,-033,M,,*67
$GPGSA,A,3,01,14,16,20,25,30,,,,,,,2.33,1.21,1.99* 06
$GPGSV,2,1,08,01,76,050,45,14,42,110,41,16,38,195, 45,20,33,305,38*7F
$GPGSV,2,2,08,23,06,305,,25,71,005,46,30,23,046,40 ,06,18,084,27*74

Those statements are one update’s worth of data. The $GP at the front of each sentence says this data is a GPS input, the next three letters tell what the data is and then the rest of the sentence is the data. For the curious,

* RMC = Recommended minimum specific GPS/Transit data and contains the time, latitude, longitude, velocity and course,
* GGA = Global Positioning System Fix Data and contains the time, latitude and longitude data, along with the number of satellites tracked and the DOP calculation
* GSA = GPS DOP and active satellites data
* GSV = GSP Satellites in view (this statement is sent until every satellite in view is listed, typically either once or twice)

Note that the entire string of data is about 330 characters long. At 4800 baud that string gets transmitted in about .138 seconds. Note also that some of the data is redundant. That redundancy increases the likelihood that even if one sentence gets messed up there is enough data each second to plot a fix every second.

You can see in the sample strings how the data should look (It will be different at your location and time, but the idea holds that instead of a string of commas, you should see numbers). Until you see numbers, the receiver is saying, in effect, "I'm here, but I can't calculate anything."

Once you get numbers and the utility reports a fix and spreads out the icons for the satellites on the radar screen, then you can tackle getting TT to connect. If, despite going outside and having a clear view of the sky, the data streams remain empty, then the only remaining option is that the receiver has a failure and isn't receiving signals from the satellites. In that case, you'll have to see if your vendor will exchange it for you.

Bottom line: BT is working, the receiver is at least partially working (You get the sentences, but no data). Next step is to see if the receiver can hear the satellites outside. If not, bad receiver. If so, then you'll get a fix and we can tackle getting TT to work with it.