Is there a Way to Transfer Programs/Data from Axim to iPAQ? - Page 3

FrinkTL · 03-25-08, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by FrinkTL

[Sprite's Response: I have advised Sprite Mobile (Case ID #33796), though their first response was: "it is not possible for Sprite Backup to break a device, the ROM is never affected."

They then directed me to HP's site instructing on how to perform a factory reset. I have since replied to let them know that the configuration files they copied over from the Axim corrupted the underlying functionality of the record button and making the hard reset no longer workThat was this morning at 8:30 AM. No reply from them on that yet. I also suggested that if they have $500 to burn that they give a try themselves.:)

Just thought that I'd let you know that I still have not heard a response back from Sprite's Support team other than their initial "we didn't do it" denial of responsibility. At first they "played" the holiday card, for Friday 3/21, but since New Zealand is about a day ahead of us, that means they have already had 2 whole business days to respond - if they had wanted to. In my opinion, they should at least offer to refund my software purchase price (based soley on their published guarantee), but they haven't even done that! Needless to say (and yet I'm saying it), I'm NOT very impressed with their support team.

"Let the buyer beware"
"Let the buyer be aware"

Tanker Bob · 03-25-08, 03:01 PM

FRincTL,

After reading how you read my post, I've deleted it in its entirety. I did not intend it as a slight towards you in any way. I disagree with your and Julie's reading of the bullet point on Sprite's site, but that hardly matters at this point. I publicly apologize for giving you offense.

Julie · 03-25-08, 03:56 PM

Oh, I disagree with you Tanker Bob. Have you looked at Sprite's website lately? You'll see that Sprite pretty plainly states - quoting directly from their site:

Quote:

Unique Device Upgrade Mode - Restore to a replacement device or after a ROM Upgrade
(See the third green checkmark on this page, if you want to see it for yourself).

From that quote, shouldn't you expect to be able to restore a backup from an Axim to a new IPAQ?

At the very least, one should expect that if the restore does not work well, one should only have to perform a factory reset. The last thing I would have expected is that this would have resulted in a bricked pocket pc.

Now, I, personally, would not have gone that route for a couple of different reasons, but I think Sprite should take some responsibility for this issue and, at the very least, offer a refund.

JakeRich · 03-25-08, 04:18 PM

I know you're getting a new machine, but I'm still amazed that a hard reset function is controlled by anything in the registry. After all, a hard reset overwrites the registry with a factory copy. Hard resetting a 21x is very hard to do, requiring three keys to be simultaneously pressed AND the reset button to be pressed at the same time. It can be done by one person, but not easily. Are you certain you actually got all four depressed at the same time? I had a hard time getting my 211 to hard reset. It took a number of tries to get all the keys and buttons depressed at the same time, and then it took a couple of seconds for the system to acknowledge I had actually managed to do it.

EDIT: From HP website--

To perform a hard reset:
1. Press the Application Key 3, Application Key 2, and the Voice Recorder button simultaneously
and hit the Reset button once.
2. Press and hold the Application Key 3, Application Key 2, and the Voice Recorder button until
Clean boot is displayed at the bottom of the screen.

JakeRich · 03-25-08, 04:21 PM

@Julie, I read the language you quoted to mean that if you backup an Axim, you can restore to an equivalent replacement Axim. The fundamentals of the HP are different from the fundamentals of the Axim--different memory, different CPU, different keys, different functions, different OS--so it would not seem reasonable to me to backup an Ax and restore to an HP.

Julie · 03-25-08, 04:38 PM

@ JakeRich: I suppose that statement could be read as you read it. But don't you think then, that the statement should explicitly state that Sprite supports backup and restore to devices from the same manufacturer only?

I'm really surprised this happened and more surprised that Sprite is not more interested in working it out with this user.

speedy1979 · 03-25-08, 04:42 PM

Ok maybe I'm stupid.

But I assumed the Hard-reset function was a Bios level not ROM level function.

The registry is a function of the ROM; which can be changed so I am assuming that something has to tell the device to load a particular ROM along with associated Registry. Wouldn't that something would be the Bootloader which is in the Bios.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe Menneisyys could drop by.

Maybe someone can explain exactly how a Hard-reset works.

speedy1979 · 03-25-08, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Julie

@ JakeRich: I suppose that statement could be read as you read it. But don't you think then, that the statement should explicitly state that Sprite supports backup and restore to devices from the same manufacturer only?

I'm really surprised this happened and more surprised that Sprite is not more interested in working it out with this user.

I was also under the impression that Spritebackup could restore across Devices regardless of Brand..................boy am I glad I found this thread.:o I would have been tempted to try it just to see what would happen all the while assuming that if it failed I would be able to resort to a Hard-reset.:realmad:

JakeRich · 03-25-08, 05:10 PM

I would think that a hard reset, by definition, would ignore any registry, button mapping, software-related functions and simply look for the four key buttons to be simultaneously pressed. At that point the ROM is read again just like the first time and the factory startup begun. The factory registry is written, memory is purged, the factory .dlls fire up and the unit boots up clean. Since nothing in Sprite writes to the ROM, I can see where they are saying it's not caused by them. They may have reassigned keys, or even messed up the number of keys, but the bottom line is that a hard reset should ignore all of that and simply look for four physical keys to be pressed and then perform the hard reset. The fact that clocks didn't change tells me that no hard reset was ever really done.

@Julie, using your expanded understanding of the statement would have meant that I should have been able to use Sprite Backup to move from my Casio (MIPS) PDA to my Axim (ARM) PDA. But obviously that would not work because the fundamentals are different. Maybe Sprite could be more clear about what the software doesn't do, but it's still pretty unreasonable to expect it to allow backup/restore to dissimilar hardware. I don't even say it has to be the same manufacturer, but it does have to be similar enough to make it feasible. After all, I also wouldn't expect it to backup a WM2003 older iPaq and then restore to a WM6 21x device without problems.

Tanker Bob · 03-25-08, 05:19 PM

Julie,

I appreciate your thoughts. That's not how I read "replacement". Personally, I would NEVER restore a system backup between two physically different handhelds. Having different Windows operating systems would amplify that prohibition. If critical hardware controls were rerouted, like buttons to hard reset, you'd have a brick--or a $450 paper weight in this case.

Over 35 years in/around the IT business has taught me that the following advice works for computers as well as airplanes: ""A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations that require the use of his superior skill."

Tanker Bob · 03-25-08, 05:26 PM

JakeRich,

Quote:

I would think that a hard reset, by definition, would ignore any registry, button mapping, software-related functions and simply look for the four key buttons to be simultaneously pressed.

Ideally I'd agree. On the 211, I can change those button functions all day long and they'd still hard reset because all that I did was remap their function. However, when restoring the hardware section of the registry from a device with a different number of buttons, who knows what would happen? My guess is that it's possible one of the buttons may have been mapped out of existence, so to speak. I believe that the PHYSICAL mapping in the registry would take precedence over the default settings in the ROM. That's one reason playing with the registry can be fraught with danger if one doesn't know what one is doing. Again, this is just a guess from reading of the outcome here.

FrinkTL · 03-25-08, 09:03 PM

Even if you're right and I'm a fool that did not listen to forum advice; even if I didn't initiate a thread in order to obtain an answer, and deserve everything that happened to me...

...none of that negates the simple and plain responsibility of a company that produces software whose intent is to safeguard our data, to clearly and plainly state what their software can and cannot do. Warnings should abound in bold print that cannot be ignored. Ambiguity such as "across devices" is inexcusable in Backup & Restore software. The onus is on them - who claim to be experts - and not on the user. The user should not have to be an expert with over 35 years of experience in order to correctly interpret their claims.

Tanker Bob · 03-25-08, 10:15 PM

Tim,

I deleted my original note. If you delete the quote from yours in #42, then it will be gone forever. I apologized that my original note conveyed a tone that I did not intend. I still disagree with your conclusion, but so be it.

JakeRich · 03-25-08, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Tanker Bob

JakeRich,

Ideally I'd agree. On the 211, I can change those button functions all day long and they'd still hard reset because all that I did was remap their function. However, when restoring the hardware section of the registry from a device with a different number of buttons, who knows what would happen? My guess is that it's possible one of the buttons may have been mapped out of existence, so to speak. I believe that the PHYSICAL mapping in the registry would take precedence over the default settings in the ROM. That's one reason playing with the registry can be fraught with danger if one doesn't know what one is doing. Again, this is just a guess from reading of the outcome here.

But what I'm thinking (and saying) is that any software mapping of the keys, no matter what you do to them, should never affect the function of hard reset. After all, a hard reset is a decision to abandon all you have done and go back to factory setup. If I were designing a PDA, I'd have that switch combination wired in, not reachable by ANY software at ANY time in ANY way. Otherwise, it ain't a reset...just my $0.02

JakeRich · 03-25-08, 11:16 PM

One more kick at this particular dead horse. From the Sprite website FAQ comes this nugget:

Quote:

*Device Upgrade Mode assumes that there are differences in hardware between the source and destination devices. Sprite Backup keeps sections of the registry that we have identified as being critical for booting the device alone and only merges the rest of the settings. This will get better over time as our understanding of what parts of the registry do what. We have found this generally works but there are cases where this does not work, like going from a device that supports playing ‘.mid’ files to one that does not. All the sound setup on the new device will not work because they are all set to play .mid files when the device does not support it. In that case a ‘Safe Device Upgrade Mode’ restore works better.

*Safe Device Upgrade Mode assumes that almost no settings change, only the new additions to the source registry are merged over.

There are some points we need to clarify when you are trying to use Sprite Backup to perform a Restore between different devices, even if the devices are identical, since there are some registry entries linked to the hardware information some functions will not always restore properly. This is because the hardware information of the new device does not match the hardware information of the old device.

That last paragraph would have scared me out of even trying it. (But I still think you should be able to hard reset, short of bricking it with a ROM upgrade.)