A cautionary tale of HP woes - Page 3

David Hettel · 05-08-08, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by FrinkTL

Even more odd is that all three went to the same person and that nobody else in the forum is reporting the same issue. I know that JakeRich knows what he's doing, but I'd think that if it was a widespread issue that more than one person on the forum would be experiencing the issue. Very, VERY weird.

Jake is not the only one experiencing this, nor is he the first. Another user is on his fifth device. Both are exchanging the complete system, and each of the eight units are all new. Also two 4000 mAh batteries have failed to date.

FrinkTL · 05-09-08, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by David Hettel

Jake is not the only one experiencing this, nor is he the first. Another user is on his fifth device. Both are exchanging the complete system, and each of the eight units are all new. Also two 4000 mAh batteries have failed to date.

Do we know precisely what hardware component has failed in each case? What part of the overall power system "decides" how/when to send current? What actually reports how much power is available? Is it the battery that reports it's available power to the iPAQ or the iPAQ that queries the battery? I'm wondering which part has failed. For example, it would be informative (to me, at least) to have someone try a non-HP battery in the iPAQ to determine if whether the battery or the core device is the failing component. Perhaps someone with an iPAQ 4700 battery or third party battery could slap one in and see if the problem repeats. Conversely, it would be equally interesting to see what happens if someone were to put the 210's battery into either another 210 that is over 2 months old and hasn't experienced this problem to see if the problem follows the battery.

I also wonder if it has anything to do with the headphone jack leaving a gaping hole exposed to the battery compartment. Maybe it's a stretch, but if someone lived in a high-humidity location, is it possible that condensation could get into the battery compartment and cause a short? I have the hole sealed off with some electrical tape, but maybe others don't?

No matter what, this is indeed a disturbing problem, and I wish I knew portion of the hardware is the root cause.

JakeRich · 05-09-08, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by FrinkTL

Do we know precisely what hardware component has failed in each case? What part of the overall power system "decides" how/when to send current? What actually reports how much power is available? Is it the battery that reports it's available power to the iPAQ or the iPAQ that queries the battery? I'm wondering which part has failed. For example, it would be informative (to me, at least) to have someone try a non-HP battery in the iPAQ to determine if whether the battery or the core device is the failing component. Perhaps someone with an iPAQ 4700 battery or third party battery could slap one in and see if the problem repeats.

Been done. Two Mugens failed for the other guy. Mugen reports that there is an error in ID Matching, whatever that means.

Quote:

Conversely, it would be equally interesting to see what happens if someone were to put the 210's battery into either another 210 that is over 2 months old and hasn't experienced this problem to see if the problem follows the battery.

I have tried two batteries, neillm (the other fellow) has tried 4 as of today. It doesn't seem to be the battery, although neillm is in conversation with Mugen about what the battery is reporting when he sent it back to them. There are errors on the battery, but they don't know if it is the battery or the 21x that is generating them.

Quote:

I also wonder if it has anything to do with the headphone jack leaving a gaping hole exposed to the battery compartment. Maybe it's a stretch, but if someone lived in a high-humidity location, is it possible that condensation could get into the battery compartment and cause a short? I have the hole sealed off with some electrical tape, but maybe others don't?

My unit is mostly indoors, in airconditioned spaces, or in my air conditioned car, so humidity is not high. In any event, if it were a real short, then the rate of discharge would be so high that the battery would explode. The battery is rated at 2200 mAh, and it decays from 100% to 0% in one CPU cycle. At 624mhz, that's not much time, which means the heat generated would be phenomenal. Have you considered that the engineers may have intended that hole for air circulation into the battery chamber? Perhaps for cooling? Is taping it shut going to have unintended consequences?

Quote:

No matter what, this is indeed a disturbing problem, and I wish I knew portion of the hardware is the root cause.

As do those of us with the problems. So far I've heard from 5 people with the same symptoms. Some only had it happen once, but a couple are in the same boat with neillm and me.

FrinkTL · 05-09-08, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by JakeRich

Been done. Two Mugens failed for the other guy. Mugen reports that there is an error in ID Matching, whatever that means.I have tried two batteries, neillm (the other fellow) has tried 4 as of today. It doesn't seem to be the battery, although neillm is in conversation with Mugen about what the battery is reporting when he sent it back to them. There are errors on the battery, but they don't know if it is the battery or the 21x that is generating them.

My unit is mostly indoors, in airconditioned spaces, or in my air conditioned car, so humidity is not high. In any event, if it were a real short, then the rate of discharge would be so high that the battery would explode. The battery is rated at 2200 mAh, and it decays from 100% to 0% in one CPU cycle. At 624mhz, that's not much time, which means the heat generated would be phenomenal. Have you considered that the engineers may have intended that hole for air circulation into the battery chamber? Perhaps for cooling? Is taping it shut going to have unintended consequences?

As do those of us with the problems. So far I've heard from 5 people with the same symptoms. Some only had it happen once, but a couple are in the same boat with neillm and me.

Thank you for the additional detail. If I was you, I'd be really mad.

As clarification, I wasn't thinking that the short caused by inbound humidity shorted the battery (that would probably melt/explode the battery) but rather some other component. Granted, that's grasping at straws, but that's what I do best.:o

As for the potential problems with taping the headphone hole shut, I contacted HP Support and they say it's not an issue; the hole was not left that way for cooling purposes.

CaptainM27 · 05-22-08, 10:45 AM

I've had my Ipaq 210 Since the 3rd week of Feb and have not had any major problems at all. Once or twice it failed to startup or froze, but nothing that a soft-reset could not handle. So far, it has been my best friend.

Don't know if this helps, but I charge my unit overnight every day. The battery hardly ever goes down below 70% during my normal use. Also, I keep it in the case that came with it and I usually stash it in my pocket all day long when I'm not using it.

Theemed · 05-26-08, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainM27

Don't know if this helps, but I charge my unit overnight every day. The battery hardly ever goes down below 70% during my normal use. Also, I keep it in the case that came with it and I usually stash it in my pocket all day long when I'm not using it.

Isn't that going to down-stretch the battery life to under-optimal values? Li-Ion cells do have somewhat of a limited maximum charges before their life decreases significantly. And either from 20% to 100% or from 70% to 100%, it still counts as a recharge cycle.

ThundaAx · 05-29-08, 11:33 AM

I agree with CaptainM27 regarding Li-Ion maintenance. It is my understanding that you are better off running on the "top half" of the battery charge, meaning keep it charged up as much as possible. I do that with all of my devices - cell phones, PDA'a, and notebook PC's. I tend to get fairly long battery life spans.

I think the analogy is the battery life is like a loaf of bread. Deeper discharges tend to slice off thicker pieces from the loaf.

Just my 2 cents.

05-29-08, 12:35 PM

From what I could find on the www a cycle is usually termed as a full cycle so that if you have a battery that is rated at 1000 cycles and you only let it go to 50% each time you will get 2000 of those cycles. The overall life of the battery doesn't change looking at it that way but it doesn't seem to shorten it either. now if only you could believe everything you read on the www!!!!

Theemed · 05-30-08, 04:32 PM

That is totally opposite to what I have found in several different sources on the WWW :D

Unit ZER0 · 06-03-08, 12:30 PM

And this is why I still have my trusty X51v, now with LennySH's WM6.1 A07 ROM. I had been thinking seriously about the 210 as a replacement for my machine... but not now. Thanks to Lenny, and that guy who showed me how to replace the onboard capacitor for the battery, my unit has new life, and the X51v will continue to be the greatest Pocket-PC on the planet! Isn't it odd, that after almost 5 years, the X51v is still the top dog?

04-17-09, 11:33 AM

So is the 210/211 still a piece of ...well I won't say junk, but after extensive research it's certainly not a clear winner...? I've been tempted to buy one but will probably just do a digitizer replacement on my x51v instead...

emeraldgirl08 · 04-20-09, 10:11 AM

The exterior and screen size make it a very attractive device.

Price is the deal breaker for me tho. That's a very expensive piece of brick...er machinery to invest in.

You could eat comfortably for a month (if your a smart shopper), buy an X51v, and maybe watch a movie with the money spent on a 210!

CodeBubba · 04-21-09, 09:23 AM

Glad I bought a 111 ... it has been completely reliable. I actually considered the 211 but that was a bit pricey.

-CB :D

kam33mitch · 04-24-09, 11:07 AM

I've had my 210 since November and bought it on ebay used for a great price and I've been absolutely happy with mine. I've followed these battery problems with a lot of interest and they are posted all over the web but no one has been able to nail down the cause. I've seen solutions ranging from having the password lock on at startup to not using the CF card to not using X software. I do know that I've never had the problem and I don't use a CF card and I do have the password on so maybe that is the reason. I've also run down my battery a few times and charged it up when it got down to 40% on other occasions and some days it sat on the cord most of the day. I just can't think that the way the battery was charged would be the cause.

I do understand everyone's frustration and I know that if it was happening to me I'd be really mad but I hate to see people stay away from a device I've found to be a major upgrade over my X50v in terms of everyday use.

I gave up on "Next day" replacement warranties over 15 years ago when my watch that had just lost a pin got exchanged for a gift certificate which was hardly what I needed considering the stores no longer had the watch in stock. I'd be curious how many times it turned out to be worth it versus how many times you had to argue with the companies to get them to replace the item.

Julie · 04-24-09, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by kam33mitch

I've had my 210 since November and bought it on ebay used for a great price and I've been absolutely happy with mine. I've followed these battery problems with a lot of interest and they are posted all over the web but no one has been able to nail down the cause. I've seen solutions ranging from having the password lock on at startup to not using the CF card to not using X software. I do know that I've never had the problem and I don't use a CF card and I do have the password on so maybe that is the reason. I've also run down my battery a few times and charged it up when it got down to 40% on other occasions and some days it sat on the cord most of the day. I just can't think that the way the battery was charged would be the cause.

I do understand everyone's frustration and I know that if it was happening to me I'd be really mad but I hate to see people stay away from a device I've found to be a major upgrade over my X50v in terms of everyday use.

I gave up on "Next day" replacement warranties over 15 years ago when my watch that had just lost a pin got exchanged for a gift certificate which was hardly what I needed considering the stores no longer had the watch in stock. I'd be curious how many times it turned out to be worth it versus how many times you had to argue with the companies to get them to replace the item.

Thanks for posting your experience with this device. I don't have the device, but I know there are quite a few people who are very happy with the device, so i don't think the experiences discussed in this thread are universally shared by others.