A cautionary tale of HP woes

JakeRich · 04-09-08, 04:18 PM

I don't usually rant, but I'm really unhappy with the shoddy service at HP right now, so I'm posting this as a warning to others.

I am the sad owner of an HP iPAQ 210. I bought it one month ago. It worked for a few days, then the battery started to drop from 100% to 0% instantaneously, with the effect that the PDA would shut down. If I plug it into a power supply, it will sit with the Orange charging LED for 5-10 minutes and then suddenly jump to 100% instantaneously. Sometimes it will run, even though at 0%, if plugged into external power, sometimes it won't. Sometimes, if it runs, when the orange LED goes out it shuts off, then the green LED comes on and the only recover is soft reset. Sometimes if it runs when the orange LED goes out it just dims to the battery screen brightness, then the green LED comes on and the screen brightens to external power settings. Very unreliable.

So, I called HP and the technician indicated that the problem was with the battery and a replacement was sent. It lasted a week until it, too, demonstrated the same symptoms. I called again and was told that HP would not replace the unit, but would send me a box to ship it back to them for repair. I didn't want to wait the week they said it would take, so they suggested that I buy the "HP Next Business Day Exchange iPAQ Service" Care Pack. I did that, registered and certified the purchase and opened a trouble ticket, fully expecting to see my replacement show up on the next business day.

Well, a day passed and nothing came from HP, no email, no notice, no iPAQ, nothing. This morning I called and was advised that they would "immediately" get the replacement on the way and that I would definitely hear from them by this afternoon and to call back if I had not.

I didn't hear, so I called back. They found the case number and told me that they had not shipped the replacement. It turns out that "Next Business" day does not mean the same to you and me as it does to HP. According to HP, when I called at 8 am this morning their action was to send an email to the repair center at 3:30 pm to see if they have any units in stock. The manager, Jennifer, whom I spoke with this afternoon insisted that my service agreement clearly spelled out that they would ship the replacement when they had it, not necessarily the "Next Business Day." As of now, I've had the HP for a month, it's worked 1 week of that month, it's unreliable, undependable and basically an expensive brick on which I've paid for a service contract that means nothing.

So, my warning is simple:

Don't buy HP iPAQ 210 series. The product is unreliable and the service is woefully inadequate. I'm posting this rant here, at Brighthand and on the HP Forums. (I suspect the HP forum police will kill it there, but if it sits there long enough for one person to be warned, that's ok.)

Theemed · 04-09-08, 05:41 PM

Scary. You're not the first one to report the battery dieing all of a sudden and behave erratically when recharged.
Can't say I'm having "these much" problems with the device, as long as there is no CF inserted. The way it cannot handle full speed framerate with anime still stinks, as the CPU should be able to achieve that. Probably, I got accustomed to its deficiencies, and my very first impression, at least before the accustomization started, was that the product was too young, and needed some major polishing... and to make it short, that I would have done better in staying with my previous iPAQ hx2400, at least until 210/214 or whatever will come in its place would have become STABLE products.
Yes, I like tha fancy black dress, the large high resolution screen, and the feeling it gives you to own the latest techtoy... still........

FrinkTL · 04-09-08, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by JakeRich

I don't usually rant, but I'm really unhappy with the shoddy service at HP right now, so I'm posting this as a warning to others...

... According to HP, when I called at 8 am this morning their action was to send an email to the repair center at 3:30 pm to see if they have any units in stock. The manager, Jennifer, whom I spoke with this afternoon insisted that my service agreement clearly spelled out that they would ship the replacement when they had it, not necessarily the "Next Business Day." As of now, I've had the HP for a month, it's worked 1 week of that month, it's unreliable, undependable and basically an expensive brick on which I've paid for a service contract that means nothing...

I count my blessings that I'm not having any of these problems (and the fact that I don't need to use the CF slot right now). The only problems I had were self-induced. But my self-inflicted wound unvealed the alarming interpretation HP has of "Next Business Day Exchange." To them it refers only to the class of SHIPPING for the replacement and has nothing whatsoever to do with WHEN it will ship. They refer to what the contract clearly states, and yet...they have yet to ship me a copy of the contract. Legally speaking, I wonder if I can get a refund for the contract price. After all, without the terms of the contract, how can I be said to have AGREED to the terms (other than what is on their website, which is in direct contradiction of their support line)?

I also purchased this currently worthless contract; and hopefully I won't need it until they have some in stock at their theoretical repair center.

Julie · 04-09-08, 07:43 PM

I'm very sorry and disappointed to hear of your problems with HP support. If it were me, I would request a full refund of the extended support - if you read through the terms of that agreement, you can ask for a full refund within 30 days:

Quote:

Termination: Customer may terminate this Agreement by notifying HP in writing at Hewlett-Packard Company within 30 days of purchase, to receive a full refund, less the purchase cost of any claims. After 30 days, the Customer may terminate the Agreement, by submitting a cancellation in writing to the above address. The Customer will receive a pro rata refund based on the time expired less the cost of any claims. HP may terminate at any time after the effective date of this Agreement if Customer fails to perform or observe any condition of this Agreement with HP. Notice of such cancellation by HP will be in writing and given at least thirty (30) days prior to cancellation. If HP cancels, Customer will receive a pro rata refund based on the time expired under the Agreement. FOR CALIFORNIA CONSUMERS (individuals who purchase for home, family or personal use only), if Customer cancels after thirty (30) days by sending a written notice of cancellation plus proof of purchase to HP, Customer will receive a pro rata refund based on the time expired less a cancellation charge of $25 or 10% of the purchase price of the Agreement, whichever is less. FOR FLORIDA CONSUMERS (individuals who purchase for home, family or personal use only), if Customer cancels after thirty (30) days by sending a written notice of cancellation plus proof of purchase to HP, Customer will receive a pro rata refund equal to 90% of the unearned pro rata purchase price less any claims that have been paid or less the cost of repairs made on Customer’s behalf.

David Hettel · 04-09-08, 08:19 PM

One extended service plan per product. Must be purchased within one year of product purchase. Hardware must be in original working condition. Extended service plans do not cover preexisting damage. See terms & conditions for details.

It would seem to me that as it is specifically stated that the unit must be in original working condition, and that Extended Services plans do not cover preexisting damage you will not be covered anyway.... Just my two cents here. Not that I work for HP or that I am a lawyer.

JakeRich · 04-09-08, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by David Hettel

One extended service plan per product. Must be purchased within one year of product purchase. Hardware must be in original working condition. Extended service plans do not cover preexisting damage. See terms & conditions for details.

It would seem to me that as it is specifically stated that the unit must be in original working condition, and that Extended Services plans do not cover preexisting damage you will not be covered anyway.... Just my two cents here. Not that I work for HP or that I am a lawyer.

wrong plan. That's for accidental damage replacement. I got the plan numbered U7844E "Next Day Hardware Exchange." And, you see, I have a transcript of a dialog with the HP Instant Support Professional Edition Chat with a technician who specifically said for me to sign up for the service. Once I did that and then came back to open the ticket, a new technician tried to cite that passage, at which time I pointed to the previous chat (they keep them) and she immediately took an entirely different tone...and set up for my "immediate" replacement. And, by definition, the hardware is in the "original working condition," i.e., as it was shipped to me. It never worked properly from day one. It's not "working," so I suppose they could trip me up on that, but they've agreed to the replacement...eventually...whenever their Next Business Day may be.

Bottom line, it's deceptive. BTW, here is the text from the website at HP where you get the details of the plan:

Quote:

A convenient, cost-effective alternative to onsite hardware repair
Replace failed hardware units quickly and conveniently with HP Services' reliable next-day exchange service. This easy-to-use HP Care Pack extended warranty service gives you a cost-efficient alternative to onsite repair for HP products.
A permanent replacement unit is shipped overnight via premium airfreight to your location. Shipping charges - for both the returned and replacement products - are prepaid by HP. Replacement units are new or refurbished to like-new condition.
Next Day Exchange is particularly suitable for products that do not carry critical data, or in instances when your data can readily be restored from back-up devices.
Choose Next Day Exchange Hardware Support when you need to:
• Replace defective hardware the day after it goes down
• Take advantage of convenient door-to-door pick-up and delivery
• Rapidly access over-the-phone problem diagnosis and technical support
• Find a cost-saving alternative to onsite hardware support
Service Highlights
• Remote problem diagnosis and support - HP Services works with you to isolate hardware problems and help with product installation, configuration, setup, and problem resolution.
• Next-day exchange - If the problem cannot be resolved remotely, we replace your failed product with a new or equivalent-to-new product free of major cosmetic defects. Next-day delivery of replacement products is available for calls received before 2:00 pm local time. Your permanent replacement unit will be delivered by 10:30 am the following business day in most areas within the continental US. Service within 1 to 2 days is available in selected areas of Alaska and Hawaii.
• Standard business hours coverage - Remote telephone support is available 8:00 am-5:00 pm Monday through Friday, excluding holidays. Extended telephone support may be available for selected products.

Nowhere in there is the word "available" to be found. It says, "Your permanent replacement unit will be delivered by 10:30 am the following business day in most areas within the continental US." Don't think it can be much more clear than that.

JakeRich · 04-10-08, 08:48 AM

Day two update. This is the transcript from my online chat with HP today:

Quote:

Print active chat [Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:28 AM] -- Automatically generated message:
This is an automated message. Your request has been received by the Technical Support Center and has been queued until a support analyst is available. Support for HP and Compaq handheld products is available 24hrs a day, 7 days a week. You will receive a response to your support request in 5 minutes or less.

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:29 AM] -- Automatically generated message:
A Support specialist, Alan H has been assigned to your case.

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:29 AM] -- Alan H says:
Hello Jesse, thank you for contacting HP and for your interest in our Active Chat online support. Here is SR ID # for your service request 452242 . My name is Alan and I see you have a question regarding your handheld. I'm going to take a few moments to review your information and will message you back very soon.

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:30 AM] -- Alan H says:
There is still no update.

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:31 AM] -- Jesse Richards says:
Now I'm really upset. Can anybody in HP just pick up a phone and call the repair center?

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:32 AM] -- Alan H says:
I will e-mail the status team to get a update. Once we get a update I will e-mail you through the case.

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:32 AM] -- Jesse Richards says:
I have brick. A very expensive brick. I paid for "Next Day Exchange" and have been waiting 2 days. This is not service, this is stupid.

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:33 AM] -- Alan H says:
In the agreement of the NBD carepaq there it says depends on availability of the units.

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:35 AM] -- Jesse Richards says:
It's not your fault, Alan, but frankly I simply don't believe you. I've been consistently lied to by just about everyone I've dealt with in HP. If you surprise me and actually do send an email, I'll be stunned. From your website (Nothing about availability):

A convenient, cost-effective alternative to onsite hardware repair
Replace failed hardware units quickly and conveniently with HP Services' reliable next-day exchange service. This easy-to-use HP Care Pack extended warranty service gives you a cost-efficient alternative to onsite repair for HP products.
A permanent replacement unit is shipped overnight via premium airfreight to your location. Shipping charges - for both the returned and replacement products - are prepaid by HP. Replacement units are new or refurbished to like-new condition.
Next Day Exchange is particularly suitable for products that do not carry critical data, or in instances when your data can readily be restored from back-up devices.
Choose Next Day Exchange Hardware Support when you need to:
• Replace defective hardware the day after it goes down
• Take advantage of convenient door-to-door pick-up and delivery
• Rapidly access over-the-phone problem diagnosis and technical support
• Find a cost-saving alternative to onsite hardware support
Service Highlights
• Remote problem diagnosis and support - HP Services works with you to isolate hardware problems and help with product installation, configuration, setup, and problem resolution.
• Next-day exchange - If the problem cannot be resolved remotely, we replace your failed product with a new or equivalent-to-new product free of major cosmetic defects. Next-day delivery of replacement products is available for calls received before 2:00 pm local time. Your permanent replacement unit will be delivered by 10:30 am the following business day in most areas within the continental US. Service within 1 to 2 days is available in selected areas of Alaska and Hawaii.
• Standard business hours coverage - Remote telephone support is available 8:00 am-5:00 pm Monday through Friday, excluding holidays. Extended telephone support may be available for selected products.

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:38 AM] -- Alan H says:
There is a clause in the Agreement saying on availability of the exchange unit.

[Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:40 AM] -- Jesse Richards says:
We agree to disagree about your so-called contract. I'll check back later.

I'm still waiting...

David Hettel · 04-10-08, 09:52 AM

It is interesting to note that Home & Home Office has them available. In essence we have learn that an iPAQ has a planned life span, and HP can always contend that they have none available for replacement, after all the number available for replacement is there choice...

FrinkTL · 04-10-08, 10:11 AM

I just got off the phone with an HP Complete Care representative. After some persistence on my part, I managed to coerce her into sending me a copy of the contract terms. I received a PDF titled, "HP Care Pack Support Service Agreement." True to HP's pattern so far, the document has 2 pages devoted to the "Customer Responsibilities" and NO section at all detailing HP's responsibilities. The document is extraordinarily generic and makes NO mention WHATSOEVER as to when replacement products can or will be sent. In short, it lists my responsibilities and the legal limits of HP's Liability and Remedy. Since it's meant to cover all contracts, it is of absolutely no use to any of them.

I will have to call back (AGAIN!!) to the Complete Care number (you can just call Technical support and ask for the Complete Care team). Any wagers on whether I will be able to obtain the specific terms of the specific contract that I purchased?

FrinkTL · 04-10-08, 12:20 PM

On the second attempt to get the information, I was provided the following link when I asked for the legal terms of the contract: Accidental Damage Protection. You'll note that it it contains the same information as already listed in this thread.

I replied to the email to request either:

Confirmation in writing that the URL contains the LEGAL TERMS of the contract, OR
A WRITTEN copy of the actual LEGAL terms of the contract.

I highlighted the contradiction expressed by the Technical Support staff and reminded the representative that it is ILLEGAL (in New York State, at least) to sell a contract without furnishing the purchaser with a WRITTEN copy of the contract terms. Any bets on what will happen?

NOTE: My contract is for Accidental Coverage (whereas JakeRich's is just for non-accidental exchange). However, since both are listed as "Next Business Day" replacement, that part of the contract should be common between them.

FrinkTL · 04-10-08, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by David Hettel

It is interesting to note that Home & Home Office has them available. In essence we have learn that an iPAQ has a planned life span, and HP can always contend that they have none available for replacement, after all the number available for replacement is there choice...

I actually mentioned this to Technical Support and they indicated that they operate completely separate and distinct from one another. They don't even have access to the other division's information.

**radimus** · 04-10-08, 01:16 PM

That is the one thing that I am pretty grateful for, access to the Government Sector business groups... When I/my peers complain, we often get NEW equipment, not refurbs. and Next Day for us, means NEXT DAY... It better be here by 10:00.

All that aside, Compaq Service has been a HUGE pain for us, which is why my Agency stopped doing business with them and bought 1000 Fujitsu tablets instead of HP tablets (Dell wasn't able to produce their mythical tablets)

JakeRich · 04-10-08, 02:01 PM

UPDATE: I just received this email:

Quote:

This email is generated automatically, Please do NOT reply to this email!

Dear Jesse Richards,

This email is to update you on the status of your service event to Hewlett-Packard Company on 08 APR 2008.

Additional notes from Hewlett-Packard Facility:
Case number/Service Event Id: **********
Serial number: ***********
Unit shipped reported on: 10 APR 2008

Please return all necessary defective parts within three days of receipt of the replacement parts.
Return instructions and assistance can be found at HP Customer Self Repair - CSR Part Status.

To track the current status of your order, please visit our web site SLS Order Inquiry Screen

Thank You
Hewlett-Packard

So, I guess the 24 hour clock finally started. I just hope the replacement isn't one of the units neillm retuned!

FrinkTL · 04-10-08, 02:24 PM

Just in case anyone is curious, I just spent about 1 1/2 hours on the phone with HP, trying to obtain a copy of the terms of my specific contract. I spoke with Paula in their Consumer Relations team who in turn spoke with the following departments, NONE of whom could furnish her with the written terms of my specific contract:

Care Pack Registration Team
Service Agreement Team
Technical Support
Other team members in Customer Relations Team

She is not allowed to speak with the legal department, but advised me that if my attorney would be able to speak with them. Of course, I immediately replied that I shouldn't have to retain a lawyer just to get a copy of the terms and conditions of my contract!!

The only thing they could produce was the generic terms and conditions, which, as I indicate above, don't detail anything useful, and say NOTHING about what HP commits to do in exchange for the contract purchase price.

I then advised her that, based upon HP's inability to produce documentation to the contrary, what is on the website (Accidental Damage Protection) becomes the LEGAL TERMS of the contract. Therefore, JakeRich, it's my opinion (though I'm no lawyer) that HP is in a material breach of contract for failing to ship a device to you on the next business day. According to the website, if you initially contacted them before 2 PM their time, you should have RECEIVED at your location your replacement device by 10:30 AM the following business day:

"Next-day delivery of replacement products is available for calls received before 2:00 pm local time. Your permanent replacement unit will be delivered by 10:30 am the following business day in most areas within the continental US. Service within 1 to 2 days is available in selected areas of Alaska and Hawaii."

JakeRich · 04-10-08, 03:44 PM

FrinkTL, my non-legal mind agrees. I seem to remember a few years back software vendors tried to put the terms of the contract INSIDE the sealed CD envelope, with terms that said you had accepted those terms by breaking the seal. I think several states got after them about that, so that now the terms are on the outside of the CD envelop. Given that the only available terms were what was posted on the website, and that nowhere in the purchasing process were any different terms presented, I think you would be logical, if not legally right.

On another note, to give credit where credit is due, Alan did send me an email confirming the shipment of my replacement unit. He even provided the tracking number! At least one HP tech service person follows through on their promises.