Does the device retain the password protection after hard reset?

Theemed · 04-16-08, 01:44 PM

I remembered to ask this, as the doubt callenged me since I first started using the iPAQ 214.
On my old hx2400 there was a so called "HP protect tools" suite by Credant, which kinda managed the password/PIN protection and folder cryptation every time you rebooted. I also had to hard reset couple times, and in both cases, after the hard reset, the device kept asking me the PIN, that, if inserted wrong for 3 times in a row, was substituted with a longer, alphanumeric password, just like PIN and PUK codes work with cellphones.
So I was proud to have displayed, at every boot, together with the owner details, a scary notice about how "this device will be un-usable even after hard-reset in case you don't know the password, so if you find it you are very encouraged to give it back".
While configuring the exact same notice on my new iPAQ, I questioned the autenticity of this, as I never did an hard reset, and don't plan to do it for as long as possible.
Can any of you fill in the blank?

David Hettel · 04-16-08, 07:09 PM

Nope at least strong passwords do not survive, and I doubt that weak ones would. Tested on a 210. :( If the Enterprise users are thinking the 210 offers protection, in case of lost they will be disappointed. After a hard reset it's back to an out of box experience. It is more than happy to show anything in the iPAQ File Store.

04-16-08, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Theemed

I remembered to ask this, as the doubt callenged me since I first started using the iPAQ 214.
On my old hx2400 there was a so called "HP protect tools" suite by Credant, which kinda managed the password/PIN protection and folder cryptation every time you rebooted. I also had to hard reset couple times, and in both cases, after the hard reset, the device kept asking me the PIN, that, if inserted wrong for 3 times in a row, was substituted with a longer, alphanumeric password, just like PIN and PUK codes work with cellphones.
So I was proud to have displayed, at every boot, together with the owner details, a scary notice about how "this device will be un-usable even after hard-reset in case you don't know the password, so if you find it you are very encouraged to give it back".
While configuring the exact same notice on my new iPAQ, I questioned the autenticity of this, as I never did an hard reset, and don't plan to do it for as long as possible.
Can any of you fill in the blank?

you can't, YOUR DATA AND SETTING WILL BE ERASED AFTER FACTORY RESET
then you have to start over

Theemed · 04-17-08, 01:52 AM

Stupid, stupid, stupid, [...], stupid HP.
I mean, that wasn't really so hard to do, they already did it with iPAQ hx2400, and that's a pretty basic function. With heaps of usefulness.
Great, anyone who steals it will have a brand new PDA, ready as it is, since you can as well sync it with a standard miniUSB cable they probably already have from a previously stolen MP3 reader or whatnot. You don't even have to fetch a 24pin connector off the internet, no extra expenses.
At least it is hella hard to reset.

Note to self: must find way to have the device LOCKED to my throusers WITHOUT looking too much nerdy.

Edit: Do you think there's a base here to start bugging HP in order to include something similar to HP protect tools in the next ROM update together with CF power fix and flexmail fix? I mean, if there will ever be a ROM update for known problems.

Theemed · 04-20-08, 05:31 PM

Back on the password/pin topic, it's not really pertinent to hard reset but I figured I could avoid opening another thread: has to any of you ever happened that the device simply didn't requrest the PIN when turned on? when this happens, I can turn off and back on as many times as I want, it never asks for the PIN. To fix, I have to go in personal settings, lock, and then simply press OK to the already saved settings. Fine, if it gets lost/stolen anyone can hard reset it, but at least I'd like the data outside ipaq file storage to be safe...

FrinkTL · 04-20-08, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Theemed

Back on the password/pin topic, it's not really pertinent to hard reset but I figured I could avoid opening another thread: has to any of you ever happened that the device simply didn't requrest the PIN when turned on? when this happens, I can turn off and back on as many times as I want, it never asks for the PIN. To fix, I have to go in personal settings, lock, and then simply press OK to the already saved settings. Fine, if it gets lost/stolen anyone can hard reset it, but at least I'd like the data outside ipaq file storage to be safe...

Are you sure you're not still within the time window set for the device to not require a password when it's been unlocked? I.e., in the Password applet (Lock icon under Settings) there is a dropdown next to the "Prompt if device unused for" checkbox. If the checkbox is selected, the device won't prompt for a password unless it has been unused for more than the time selected in the dropdown.

**Frenchy** · 04-20-08, 10:22 PM

It may have changed since WM pre 5 but a hard reset cleared every passwords. A hard reset bring the PDA to factory settings so all password technically are gone.

David Hettel · 04-20-08, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by FrinkTL

Are you sure you're not still within the time window set for the device to not require a password when it's been unlocked? I.e., in the Password applet (Lock icon under Settings) there is a dropdown next to the "Prompt if device unused for" checkbox. If the checkbox is selected, the device won't prompt for a password unless it has been unused for more than the time selected in the dropdown.

This does not apply to a device that has been turn off, or soft reset, at least that is my experience on my 210. After a soft reset I am prompted for a password.

David Hettel · 04-20-08, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Frenchy

It may have changed since WM pre 5 but a hard reset cleared every passwords. A hard reset bring the PDA to factory settings so all password technically are gone.

As was stated, HP included an application called "HP protect tools" by Credant, with this installed the password survived a hard reset as well as a soft reset. Microsoft has released an utility that will autorun certain files on a Hard Reset, if this was installed on the iPAQ File Stored in theory we could have this on the 210 as well.

Theemed · 04-21-08, 07:23 AM

FrinkTL I have that "time window" set to 0 minutes, so it has to ask me for a PIN everytime I turn it off and on... and David, that is definitely good news, any links to that utility? Not that I would be able to restore the password protect on hard reset myself, still... I'd like to check it out ;)
By the way... if you set the time windows to anything higher than 0 minutes, I experienced the device not asking for a password when turned off and back on, as long as you keep it faster than the set delay.

David Hettel · 04-21-08, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Theemed

FrinkTL I have that "time window" set to 0 minutes, so it has to ask me for a PIN everytime I turn it off and on... and David, that is definitely good news, any links to that utility? Not that I would be able to restore the password protect on hard reset myself, still... I'd like to check it out ;)
By the way... if you set the time windows to anything higher than 0 minutes, I experienced the device not asking for a password when turned off and back on, as long as you keep it faster than the set delay.

You are right, it seems that only a soft reset requires a password, ir-regardless of the "time window".

I looked an I don't have a link to that utility from Microsoft.

I assumed it was much like the one XDA-Developers has for customization. They have an exe that runs in a hidden extended ROM folder much like the iPAQ File Store, and will install cab files to the device on a hard reset. It is generally used to set up phone customization, but will install cab files.

FrinkTL · 04-21-08, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by David Hettel

You are right, it seems that only a soft reset requires a password, ir-regardless of the "time window".

I looked an I don't have a link to that utility from Microsoft.

I assumed it was much like the one XDA-Developers has for customization. They have an exe that runs in a hidden extended ROM folder much like the iPAQ File Store, and will install cab files to the device on a hard reset. It is generally used to set up phone customization, but will install cab files.

WOW! That has NOT been my experience at all. Could it be there are ROM differences float around? My device will actually lock while I'm still "using" the GPS or MortPlayer - - i.e., while the device is still ON! So, of course, after the allotted time, it will also prompt me for a password when I turn the device on after the time expires. HOWEVER, I do not use a PIN; I use a strong Alphanumeric password. You don't suppose that makes a difference?

Theemed · 04-21-08, 03:08 PM

It shouldn't make a difference, really... mine does lock by itself too, it's coincidental with the power saving mode after 30 secs of inactivity, as soon as that happens the backlight goes off and when I tap I have to insert the PIN again. Anyhow, that's strange that it still locks up while in the GPS app, this doesn't happen with TomTom, probably yours doesn't "refresh" the idle time.

And by the way, do you fellow 210 owners also experience the PIN/Password screen lagging heavily after a soft reset? I can still press the buttons in the correct sequence followed by the Unlock button, it will keep the presses in the buffer and then unlocks after the lags ran out.

FrinkTL · 04-21-08, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Theemed

And by the way, do you fellow 210 owners also experience the PIN/Password screen lagging heavily after a soft reset? I can still press the buttons in the correct sequence followed by the Unlock button, it will keep the presses in the buffer and then unlocks after the lags ran out.

I think the only time I've noticed that is when I reset it with the Bluetooth radio on (it tries to restore the radio's state upon reset, I guess). Otherwise, I haven't notice any lag at all.

Theemed · 04-22-08, 04:02 PM

Uhhh... probably, that's a good input. 9 out of 10, if I reset the device it's because of tomtom hanging, so BT radio is on... I should notice it more carefully.