After feeling that something wasn't right with my HP Ipaq HX4700 running time I have decided to look into whether there is a problem.
I have now tested 2 batteries in my HX4700 and just need someone with some *knowledge* to give me some advice on my findings.
1st battery tested is an aftermarket Panasonic extended 3900mAh (assembled in China with Japan cells) with battery cover.
2nd battery tested is the original HP standard 1800mAh battery.
I set the HX4700 W2003CE (sp29841 with sp30939 update) with backlight approx 70% (my usual setting), all auto-off features disabled (backlight/standby), wifi / bluetooth / irda off, TCPMP player playing mp3 continuously from 100% charge until battery reached 10% left.
For measuring battery drain I used acbPowerMeter.
After completely tests of both batteries here are my findings;
Estimated length of test to reach 0% power remaining equaled 5 hours, mAh total drain 1800mAh;
Average drain was 355mA to 360mA
after 3/4 hours 250mAh used 85% power remaining
after 1 hours 350mAh used 80% power remaining
after 1 1/2 hours 500mAh used 70% power remaining
after 2 hours 700mAh used 60% power remaining
after 2 1/2 hours 900mAh used 50% power remaining
after 3 hours 1100mAh used 40% power remaining
after 3 1/2 hours 1250mAh used 30% power remaining
after 4 hours 1450mAh used 20% power remaining
after 4.5 hours 1600mAh used 10% power remaining
after 5 hours 1800mAh used 0% power remaining (This one is the estimate)
Getting the above test results from both batteries shows something is definately wrong!
I am happy that the HP standard battery is working correctly reaching it's 1800mAh potential.
I am shocked and upset that the Panasonic extended battery is only working like a standard battery.
1800mAh is lower than 50% of the Panasonic's 3900mAh batteries potential capacity.
Based on 355mA to 360mA average drain the 3900mAh battery should last around 10 3/4 hours!!!
Any ideas what I can do with the Panasonic extended battery now, or can only the batteries manufacturer fix it?
I have checked and the battery is still under warranty for another 5 months.
Thankyou,
Dan
Last edited by jclampy; 07-29-09 at 01:26 AM.
Reason: Both batteries now tested under W2003CE
edit 1;
I have been trialing conditions of the battery under official WM5 Rom for over a week now. At this point in time the battery is still performing as in my original post. IE: Extremely underperforming. I am going to do one more test in the future before RMA'ing the extended battery.
Currently I am busy testing a second hand Axim X50v that I have just acquired. It has the standard 1100mAh battery and an extended 2200mAh battery. I am going to test both of these batteries under W2003CE and then post a comparison of battery results between the HX4700 and X50v.
edit 2;
I have now completed the last HX4700 extended battery test under WM5 and have decided to pursue an RMA of said extended battery. Extended battery is only running at 50% or under of its full advertised capacity. I have results based on both mAh capacity but also on running times in hours and minutes based against a perfectly working standard battery.
What this means in regards to this thread is that I will accumulate all my test results and post an update, I may post it as a screenshot of the spreadsheet that I have been using so you can see a nice easy to read comparison. I have also got my Axim X50v battery results (standard and Extended) which have been tested as well (only the first run, I want to do a second run with slight variation). I just need to workout the best way/place to post them.
Congratulations on your first posts, jclampy :approve:
An statistical average based on your measurements gives 1780 mAh and 4,93 hours.
So your stated results of 1800 mAh and 5 hours is OK
A while ago I did the same test on 4 axim 1100 mAh batteries.
The results varied between 600 and 800 mAh.
Today one battery is out and the rest are down between 100 and 150 mAh.
That's life :o
Welcome to the MobilitySite - I'm sure you'll enjoy - :)
Hi Zaniax,
Thankyou for your interest in my thread and thankyou for taking the time to respond. :)
Just to let you know that you had only seen the results for my 3900mAh extended battery. I had not tested the 1800mAh standard battery until just now. So, the results you have commented on were actually from the 3900mAh extended battery. :o
Yes, my 3900mAh extended battery appears to be running at under 50% capacity. It is acting like a standard battery. I am not sure if there is anything I can do with the battery or not? I am going to run some more tests on it.
Again thankyou for your time I appreciate it!!! :approve:
Anyone with any knowledge or experience in regards to the problems I am experiencing with my batteries that wants to add to the discussion??
Especially if you have knowledge or experience with HP Ipaq HX4700 or HX4705. Operating System version wouldn't matter as I have read about the problems HP had with batteries back in early W2003CE days.
I know HP released a firmware update for W2003CE which I have installed as can be seen in my original message. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to have helped my extended battery.
I don't know if the problems are suppose to be nonexistant in WM5 and above or not?
I have noticed lower running times irrelavant of the operating systems I have tried.
That is why I have started testing from W2003CE with the firmware update as that is suppose to be a *battery problem free environment*.
Please any help, advice, experience would be grateful.
If there is nothing to do about it, then I will just return battery under warranty.
I am currently charging my extended battery again.
Just noticed that with my HP 2000mAh wall charger connected to my HP cradle it is only reading approxiamately 1000mAh charging current via acbPowerMeter.
Shouldn't that be 2000mAh? Is it because I am going through the HP cradle?
edit;
Just disconnected the wall charger from the cradle and plugged it directly into the HX4700. It still is only reading approxiamately 1000mAh charge current.
Just noticed that with my HP 2000mAh wall charger connected to my HP cradle it is only reading approxiamately 1000mAh charging current via acbPowerMeter.
I think you're confusing power capacity (mAh) with electric current (mA).
Your HP charger is able to supply up to 2000 mA - if demanded by a device.
Your IPAQ seems to limit the charge current to 1000 mA - maybe to protect the battery for damage by overheating.
Just compare it to the power outlet on the wall.
It is able to supply several kilowatts - but a modern light bulb only demands about 10 watts or so.
Just my 2¢ :)
Last edited by Zaniax; 07-29-09 at 03:04 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Zaniax For This Useful Post:
I think you're confusing power capacity (mAh) with electric current (mA).
Your HP charger is able to supply up to 2000 mA - if demanded by a device.
Your IPAQ seems to limit the charge current to 1000 mA - maybe to protect the battery for damage by overheating.
Just compare it to the power outlet on the wall.
It is able to supply several kilowatts - but a modern light bulb only demands about 10 watts or so.
Just my 2¢ :)
Hi Zaniax,
Yep, you have corrected me there!
I checked the charger and it says 2A max output, which is 2000mA I think? I had mAh on the brain!
Actually, I have just had a look and acbPowerMeter is only showing an increase of 600mA per second at the moment. I swapped over to a 1A max output charger connected directly to the HX4700 to compare and is showing same 600mA increase as well. :rolling:
It's at about 80% charge now, I guess the charge current decreases as the battery fills up.
Makes me wonder if paying extra for the 2A max output charger was worth it???
I will be quite annoyed if I found that the 1A and 2A chargers both took the same amount of time to charge the batteries. Ofcourse I am suppose to be looking at testing running time of batteries at the moment not charging, maybe that could be after..
Edit;
I will see if I can find out if the HX4700 limits the charge rate to 1000mA. If so, then HP is ripping people of with 2A chargers that will never be utilised beyond what the standard HP 1A charger can do.
Do you think the charge rate may have been programmed into batteries onboard chip by the batteries manufacturer as opposed to the HX4700 being the limiting factor??
Hey jclampy - please don't make a full quote when you reply.
I do remember my post :)
Quote:
I will be quite annoyed if I found that the 1A and 2A chargers both took the same amount of time to charge the batteries.
Of course they are !
Even if you charged from an atomic power station your IPAQ wouldn't charge any faster:
It's your IPAQ that determines the load because it got a build-in charge controller to avoid battery damages by overheating.
I got a 2A charger for my Axim.
Therefore I'm able to charge 2 batteries simultaneously.
One in the cradle and one in my Axim when placed in the cradle.
Hopefully it's clear by now :o
And - BTW:
2000mA is the same as 2A
But 2000 mA is certainly not the same as 2000 mAh
Quote:
... and acbPowerMeter is only showing an increase of 600mA per second at the moment
My acbPowerMeter isn't showing anything when my Axim is charging - strange :scratch_h
I got a 2A charger for my Axim.
Therefore I'm able to charge 2 batteries simultaneously.
One in the cradle and one in my Axim when placed in the cradle.
That is understandable when put like that as your Axim can charge the spare battery at the same time. Unfortunately the HX4700 cradle does not allow that luxury. We can only recharge one battery at a time while they are installed in the HX4700.
So, I still have the question of why HP would release a 2A fast charger for the HX4700 when it is not being utilised. If the 1A charge current of the HP standard 1A charger is the most you will ever get anyway.
Originally Posted by Zaniax
My acbPowerMeter isn't showing anything when my Axim is charging - strange :scratch_h
Well to be technically correct I will put it like this. While my HX4700 is 'idle' on battery power it sits at a current drain of about 200mA. When I first started charging the battery the acbpowermeter then showed 800mA current drain which is abviously incorrect. So I interpreted as the acbpowermeter meaning -800mA current drain because the device was charging. So I changed it to +800mA and added the 200mA 'idle' current drain that acbpowermeter would otherwise show and came to the conclusion that the charger must be outputting a 1000mA current.
Ofcourse I didn't want to go into that much detail so I just said acbpowermeter showed 1000mA charge current. :) I try! :approve:
What do you see with acbpowermeter while your device is charging? :hide:
PS: An Axim x50v will be in my hands in a few days, what Axim have you got?
Hoorah!!! I actually confused another person instead of myself for once!
Seriously, I went looking for a 'C Rating' for these batteries but couldn't find anything.
I did find these numbers though:
1) In the HX4700 battery compartment it has 'input 5v DC 2a'
2) Under the cradle it has 'input 5v DC 2a'
3) In the manual it has 'External Power 10 watt maximum output AC Adapter'
4) One charger has output max 2a the other has 1a
if this information helps at all??
I think I might just return this battery than continue testing it. I think it is just bad.
When fully charged the ipaq reads standby time remaining 8.5 hours when it should be more like 20 something..
What do you think Zaniax, "flogging a dead horse here"?
That list states the (least/minimum) requirements for the power adapter.
It does not tell anything about the actual IPAQ power consumption.
But acbPowermeter does
Well, I think you'll run into difficulties if you have to explain why you're returning the battery.
Makes me wonder if paying extra for the 2A max output charger was worth it???
I will be quite annoyed if I found that the 1A and 2A chargers both took the same amount of time to charge the batteries. Ofcourse I am suppose to be looking at testing running time of batteries at the moment not charging, maybe that could be after..
Edit;
I will see if I can find out if the HX4700 limits the charge rate to 1000mA. If so, then HP is ripping people of with 2A chargers that will never be utilised beyond what the standard HP 1A charger can do.
Do you think the charge rate may have been programmed into batteries onboard chip by the batteries manufacturer as opposed to the HX4700 being the limiting factor??
Thanks,
Dan.
I'll throw in my 2¢ here.
I believe if you were to connect the 2a charger to the hp with full brightness, max cpu usage, an sd or cf i/o device (like a gps unit or wifi adapter etc) and a nearly dead battery the current draw would likely exceed 1 amp. The 1 amp charger would work but the battery charging circuit would be limited to whatever the hp wasn't consuming. Therefore, the battery would take longer to charge or possibly even drawn from. An example of this is when I first bought my axim I was unable to find a 2a automobile (12v) charger and settled on a 1a charger. I was using a cf gps unit with the ax on full bright. After 5 or so hours of driving the battery was nearly discharged and the low battery warning was displayed! This was resolved with a 2a charger.
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I am going to run some more tests on it.
