mcduck

RIP Dell Axim.

Xzwatz

Talking about "converged devices", instead cellphones becomes "converged devices" (cellphone + PDA), I would like cellphones becomes simpler... ...I would like a cellphone without agenda, games, color screen, mp3 player, radio, etc... ...just a simple (and really small) phone with a dialpad and a small monochromatic screen... ...and with blueetooth... A "just plain" cellphone like this could be (in size) like current bluetooth headsets.

Then, I can use my PDA to dial through bluetooth, and use my PDA's agenda, my PDA's games, my PDA's MP3 player, etc...

I don't like "converged devices", unless this "converged device" would be a "really converged device". I mean, a device that becomes your PDA + CellPhone + Camera + Keys (home, car, etc.) + ID + Credit Card + Debit Card + Passport + GPS + "PC core" + etc...


Julio.

frankenbike

The locked cell usage issue is a major one. I don't think it would have been an issue with a slightly less business whoring government in the US. But then, the subsidy from service for a contract does make devices affordable, and it's only for two years. Not all that long.

While I agree that I don't always want something as big as a PPC with me, I'd say my next PDA will be something like the 6700:
http://www1.sprintpcs.com/explore/Ph...=1138908789567

Aside from built in GPS and built in HDD (5gig or larger), it has almost everything else I'd want, including built in thumbboard. With broadband access, I'd use the web on the go a lot more. If I could have it on a "Family plan" where I could have a small phone for an extra $10 (plus the price of the phone, of course), then economically it would make sense. I've seen the 6700, and it's smaller than I thought it would be (which means smaller screen than I'd like).

But having tasted "anywhere" Internet use with my x30 and bluetooth phone, slow as it is now, a PPC without internet access anywhere seems naked and flat out far less useful.

And if it was cheap to use a PPC with internet service, I could listen to internet radio all day if I wanted.

I agree about the carrier lockdown. With a less business whoring government, we'd be able to buy phones and PPC/phone appliances separate from the services, stores would compete based on price like they do with everything else, so they'd probably be the same price as with the subsidy, and we could pick and choose whatever service we wanted. There are devices that have SIM cards that you can switch from compatible device to compatible device, but they aren't that common if they even still exist. And in the US, there's the whole issue of GSM vs CDMA.

And you can already get cards like what you're talking about. I've seen the CF plug-in at Verizon. Most people who will use their PDAs as internet appliances seem to prefer a unified approach that is smaller and more reliable.

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Frankenbike

Haesslich

There's also another problem with converged devices - your business may not let you use one, or bring one onto company property, especially if you deal with any information they consider 'sensitive'. I've heard of cell phones being banned from businesses, some with cameras and some without. Imagine a converged PDA with camera and cell phone, which would let you one-click away the company's top-secret project to some thirty party - and then being told you couldn't bring the PDA you keep your appointments in with you because of that.

Converged devices are fine and dandy, but a nice standalone product still has some utility, especially if it's cheaper and doesn't get banned from the workplace because it has a communications device like a cell phone radio in it. :D

calvin13

Originally Posted by Xzwatz

Talking about "converged devices", instead cellphones becomes "converged devices" (cellphone + PDA), I would like cellphones becomes simpler... ...I would like a cellphone without agenda, games, color screen, mp3 player, radio, etc... ...just a simple (and really small) phone with a dialpad and a small monochromatic screen... ...and with blueetooth... A "just plain" cellphone like this could be (in size) like current bluetooth headsets.

That is the cell phone that I want. If I want to take picture I will get a camera, the same for music, games and so forth.

awdark

Eh, if its the end of the Axim, then its the end. I have been recently thinking that my Axim is far from being a computer and that limitation in power is really getting to me.
The biggest thing is getting to me no USB ports and we don't even have a decent browser if I ever replace my X50v, I will look into a small computer or notebook. Its far from being the form factor I like (axim) but no usb and software that reminds me of running the mac os, well im not cool with that.

dblml320

Me thinks that Dell just does not care anymore. That is why the x50v patch is so late, and in my view, probably not coming. They are jumping out of the PDA business like Toshiba did, and thumbing their nose at their loyal customers.

Well I am happy to say I have been Toshiba free for 3 years now since my Toshiba PDA was not "upgradeable" to WM2003. I will continue to be Toshiba free, and if Dell does not issue a patch for my x50v and WM5, I will be Dell free ... and I will tell you I spend a lot of money on hardware .. so it will be Dell's loss.

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Jav Atar

smirks

I couldn't agree more with Julio's post above.

That is exactly how I use my axim + RAZR combination.

I don't use 95% of the crap on my RAZR inculding the address book because my axim is superior at those functions.

I just don't understand why people have such a tough time understanding that the phone is just a component just like my gps unit. I prefer to swap out components as I SEE FIT.
Work stations...components
Audio setups...components
Video setups...components

Anything else than a cell card that I can pop in a slot (cf/sd)that I can use with any service provider just doesn't seem to fit the model.
I don't want to hold a brick to my head to have a phone conversation.
I don't want to increase the size/weight of the pda in total.
I don't want to decrease the size of the screen.

And while I'm ranting...
Hardware keyboards like the blackberry will die...sure of that.
When it's an either/or scenario, I would always prefer more screen space to a hardware keyboard.
I recently started buying ebooks and reading them on my axim.
I've read more books in the past couple of months than the whole prior year. I'm reading four books concurrently. I'd never do that before.
More screen.

frankenbike

Originally Posted by Haesslich

Imagine a converged PDA with camera and cell phone, which would let you one-click away the company's top-secret project to some thirty party - and then being told you couldn't bring the PDA you keep your appointments in with you because of that.

Unless they check in your PDA when you arrive, and check it out when you leave, it seems to me that that's still a problem. Especially with any PDA that has WiFi or Bluetooth. Like pretty much nearly all the Axim models of the last two years.

I vote that this is a straw dog argument.

In response to other posts, the 6700 I saw isn't very brick-like. It's only 3/4 of an inch on two sides bigger than my pretty small cell phone (LG PM-325), and if I did use it as a cell phone, I'd probably use a bluetooth headset. I'm not saying it's the be/end all, but it's certainly useful.

And I don't think the connected PDA and a separate cellphone are mutually exclusive. If the service charges were like that of two cell phones in a family, it would be reasonable to have both.

I'll say this. If I have to carry around my PPC, and my cell phone, I have two devices. If I had the choice of carrying the PPC and leaving the cell at home and accomplishing the same thing, that would be nicer. So I only have one device. Too bad there aren't any plans that I know of that lets you switch your cell phone number from one device to the other universally. That would be nice.

And I disagree with the whole "carrying a card around when you want to use the Internet". It's just another little thing in your pocket to lose or accidentally leave in your pants when you throw them in the washing machine. Or, in some cases, another reason why your wife might divorce you after you yell at her for not checking your pockets after you find it ruined because it was washed.

I think the market for PDAs that don't have Internet access, that can't receive email and text messages, is dwindling. Those who still want such unconnected devices will become a persecuted minority whining "Why don't they make a stripped down product just for me?"

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Frankenbike

ladytonya

Just because I don't want a converged device doesn't mean that I want a "stripped down" device. I want a phone for my phone and a PDA for my PDA. Like others have said, I don't want to have to hold a brick up to my head to talk on the phone and I don't want a teeny tiny little screen to view my contacts, Word documents, etc. I have no problem with carrying two devices. I usually carry three. I have my phone in my pants pocket, my Axim zipped in my coat pocket, and my DJ clipped to the waistline of my pants. Of course, that is if I'm not carrying my purse at that time. If I have my purse on me, everything is in there. There are certain advantages to being a girl!

and frankenbike, if you don't like to way your wife does the laundry, wash your own damn clothes! My husband complained about something to do with the laundry one too many times so now it's his job. I never washed anything and he drowned his cell phone the second week he did it.

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Tonya :cheers:
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Axim X51 520 Mhz
Windows Mobile Version 5.0
ROM Version A05
Belkin Cordovan Case
Sandisk 512MB CF Card

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frankenbike

Tonya, my wife has never washed my clothes. That statement was for the guys whose wives do wash their clothes, in case they have no experience with "throwing their pants in the washer".

It's all well and good that you can carry three specialized devices with you, as you mention you have extra carrying capacity. As do guys who carry briefcases, AKA "man purses". There are lots of ways to carry the extra electronic gizmos.

But there is one main problem with the statement that you "don't want to have to hold a brick" to your ear. First off, converged PDA phones like the 6700 aren't that big. In fact, I'd prefer a bigger one with a bigger screen. Second, there's this new invention called "headsets". They're being worn by most of the non-homeless people you see around talking to thin air.

And the idea that these are "phones" is missing the point. The value of a PDA/phone is not using the PDA as a phone. It's hooking your PDA up to the internet wherever you go. The phone part is a little helping hand to ease the pain of paying for two expensive devices. And maybe not having to carry as many chargers and more accessories when you travel.

The primary selling point of these new devices, and why they're displacing PDA/PPCs, is that most ordinary people don't really need an electronic gizmo to keep appointments. Most people don't have all that many appointments. But the idea of having a portable internet appliance is something else. That can be used to get email in the middle of the day, off of your work email which is assumed to be monitored. It can be used to look things up while you're away from a computer. Other than the small type of a PDA, it can be used for anything you use a desktop PC for with the internet, other than looking at big pictures and overly complex web sites.

Right now, my Axim is tethered to the internet through bluetooth. This is adequate, but barely. The idiosyncracies of bluetooth pairing make it annoying sometimes. But when I'm at work, it's very convenient to be able to check my home email without going through the work computer so the IT guys can monitor my web and email use. I think a lot more people will catch on to this trend of their own personal, portable web appliance as employee monitoring continues its draconian personal space invading march.

And I think companies may employ such devices more as a way to avoid leaving a "paper trail" on controversial business deals. And many will be seeking a way around the whole problem of Blackberry debacle.

So the fact is, that internet connected devices are the future, because they serve people in a way that a non-connect PPC can't, and those that aren't connected will serve a smaller and smaller segment. It's hard to imagine what people would use a home PC for it it couldn't connect to the internet.

WiFi was the great hope for internet connectivity. But it just hasn't caught on that much. There are more places that have WiFi then ever, but either they're grossly overpriced, or the free ones are restricted to liberal cities like San Francisco and Austin. WiMax is a great hope, but it's going to be hard pressed to compete against one charge services that you already pay money to, where you have broadband access wherever you go.

The whole idea that PPCs are for business people who just want to sync them up with their contacts and Word documents is an old model that's going to go out the window. We're talking about bringing PPC utility to a wider market eventually, where syncing is not the major source of input to the PPC. I hate syncing. I want to use my PPC as a PC away from my PC. Not have it tethered to my PC for it to be the least bit useful. We're not talking about a market mostly of business professionals, we're talking about teenagers, young adults, and people who want to use electronic communications but also want to maintain privacy from their employers. When the price of these devices comes down to something more reasonable, as it will inevitably, and the service charges are brought down to something priced for consumers and not businesses, there won't be much demand left for todays un-connected and haphazardly connected devices.

(The issue of MP3 players is a separate one, but I think the dividing point for those is about 5gb of built in storage, since most people don't need to carry around their entire music library).

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Frankenbike

donbmcd

Let's be blunt, if Verizon backaged an X50v with an UNCRIPPLED bluetooth phone they would have a winner.

lawman

Well, just to cut to the fray, interestingly enough, I used Skype from my X50v and connected via Bluetooth to the Verizon XV6600 which is connected to the Internet via CDMA EVDO and it works fine! Usually, Skype sucks over Bluetooth, but when you are using EVDO speeds, Skype works well!

Interesting...possibilities.

Would make sense of course, that due to more bandwidth via EVDO, Skype would work pretty well considering that Skype works so-so already on a dial-up line on a PC.

Anyways. Just thought I would bring this up.

frankenbike

And that of course is the great fear of the cellular carrier. Unlimited internet access would mean no more charging by the minute, unless they charged by the minute for internet use. I don't know if that would bother me as long as that was the only charge.

Sprint, for example, does not charge by the minute for Internet use. Not even voice minutes as long as it's through an ordinary phone. The cellular services haven't figured out yet how to make this sort of thing attractive for personal use in the way they've worked to make regular phone use attractive for families. They will eventually.

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Frankenbike

grapeape

Originally Posted by frankenbike

And that of course is the great fear of the cellular carrier. Unlimited internet access would mean no more charging by the minute, unless they charged by the minute for internet use. I don't know if that would bother me as long as that was the only charge. Sprint, for example, does not charge by the minute for Internet use. Not even voice minutes as long as it's through an ordinary phone. The cellular services haven't figured out yet how to make this sort of thing attractive for personal use in the way they've worked to make regular phone use attractive for families. They will eventually.

Ah well if its the last PDA, I guess it will be my last handheld. I've had a Treo and a Blackberry at work...sold my imate to get my x50. I just dont need all that crap on my phone. My cellular company hates me since I normally just get whatever the cheapest thing is with the least amount of features. Im sure the sales figures are attractive but oddly enough out of all the people at work (im part of the senior IT staff) that have smartphones the most complicated thing I have ever seen any of them do is synch contacts the laboriously typed in after running into potential clients and associates. Yes I have seen a few play games on them while waiting for something but other than that most support issues are where someone ended up in a menu they dont know how to get out of while "playing" with their phone.