cageyjames

Range is small because there are not many APs out there. Can you imagine if every broadband connection had a wifi connection?

ianru

I AGREE THAT CELL PHONES ORTHE LIKE SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE WITH LAPTOPS OR PDA'S. THERE SHOULD ALSO BE CELLULAR CARDS FOR LAPTOPS OR PDA'S

JeffLewis

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Originally posted by cageyjames Range is small because there are not many APs out there. Can you imagine if every broadband connection had a wifi connection?

No.. range is small because that's what the 802.11b/g specs define it to be. FRS frequencies aren't meant for large powerful transmitters, although you can do it.

The reason it's done that way is simple - there isn't much bandwidth available for use, and if everyone had a large footprint, you'd saturate the bandwidth quickly just with device chatter.

What you're proposing is that everyone with a broadband connection give up a chunk of their bandwidth for you. In my case, I have bandwidth caps. If someone takes advantage of my network connection, I can lose my account. In fact, almost every broadband ISP has a rule to the effect that the customer isn't allowed to share their connection. Most don't even like you setting up an FTP or HTTP server.

Both Telus and Shaw in Canada have similar limits (around 5GB/mo down and 1 up).

Worse, to make what you're proposing work, everyone would have to leave their APs open, or install some kind of frontend like the commercial AP/ISPs do. Who's going to do that? Otherwise, they'll have to provide some way to allow you to transfer from one AP to the next, and that doesn't work well.

Then there's the legal issues. Someone drives up to your house, connect to the web and starts downloading kiddie porn. The next day, the FBI is at your door wanting to know why kiddie porn was downloaded to your IP address.

Or a spam mailer drives past and sends tons of email over your IP addy. Don't think it's likely? Well, here's a clue. I set up an FTP server on my main home computer. Before I knew it - I got a call from my cableco asking why my use had gone so insanely high.

I did a little checking and realised I'd forgotten to disable anonymous access. A bunch of movie pirates had started using my FTP area as their personal storage/transfer area and had run something like 3GB through my computer before it was noticed. My cableco was NOT impressed.

Needless to say, my WiFi is locked down (128bit - weak, but that's all I have) and doesn't have direct access to my ISP.

cageyjames

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Originally posted by JeffLewis No.. range is small because that's what the 802.11b/g specs define it to be. FRS frequencies aren't meant for large powerful transmitters, although you can do it.

Wait, I never said the range wasn't small. But in cities you'd have thousands of APs that would make up for the lack of range.

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The reason it's done that way is simple - there isn't much bandwidth available for use, and if everyone had a large footprint, you'd saturate the bandwidth quickly just with device chatter.

Wouldn't matter, with so may APs out there you might only have 5 people using the AP at once. To join the network you'd have to have your own WhyFi adaptor so unlike 802.11x security and other issues would be handled. Says Cringely:

And even the free subscribers don't present a burden on the system because each of their WhyFi cards extends the hotspot they are connected to by building a little ad hoc WhyFi access point of its own.

Cringely isn't saying take the existing wifi and make it bigger, he is saying take the technology and make it smarter. With better equipment you wouldn't have to worry about issues such as this. Teenagers with their PDA couldn't access the network unless they shared their own AP and to do so they would have to buy the equipment.

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What you're proposing is that everyone with a broadband connection give up a chunk of their bandwidth for you. In my case, I have bandwidth caps. If someone takes advantage of my network connection, I can lose my account. In fact, almost every broadband ISP has a rule to the effect that the customer isn't allowed to share their connection. Most don't even like you setting up an FTP or HTTP server. Both Telus and Shaw in Canada have similar limits (around 5GB/mo down and 1 up).

Did you read the article? Cringely addresses it with this:

Right now many readers are thinking that most ISPs frown on hotspots and connection sharing. That's true but they also function in a competitive environment such that I don't think any major ISP could make stick such a prohibition if there was widespread cheating. The key here is those one million hotspots. Make enough "illegal" hotspots and competitive pressures will result in changing the rules to allow them. Speakeasy is a national broadband ISP that already allows connection sharing and I'm sure there are others. If your ISP kicks you off, just go to Speakeasy or one of the others. After awhile your ISP will get the message.

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Worse, to make what you're proposing work, everyone would have to leave their APs open, or install some kind of frontend like the commercial AP/ISPs do. Who's going to do that? Otherwise, they'll have to provide some way to allow you to transfer from one AP to the next, and that doesn't work well.

No again its not wide open. Again Cringely:

The only thing that makes WhyFi hardware any different from what you could buy at CompUSA is slightly different firmware. This firmware establishes for the hotspot owner a DMZ in which the public traffic is contained as well as a RADIUS function required for network authorization. Public traffic can consume up to 100 percent of available bandwidth but availability is defined by what isn't being used by the hotspot owner. The result is you can run a hotspot without having to endure any sort of performance hit.

The WhyFi card also contains different firmware that establishes similar DMZ and RADIUS functions though in this case they operate in an ad hoc network around your notebook or dektop.

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Then there's the legal issues. Someone drives up to your house, connect to the web and starts downloading kiddie porn. The next day, the FBI is at your door wanting to know why kiddie porn was downloaded to your IP address. Or a spam mailer drives past and sends tons of email over your IP addy. Don't think it's likely? Well, here's a clue. I set up an FTP server on my main home computer. Before I knew it - I got a call from my cableco asking why my use had gone so insanely high.

I'm begining to think you didn't read the article. With MAC filtering and other security they could easily tell who is using the network much like they can tell with Cell phones.

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I did a little checking and realised I'd forgotten to disable anonymous access. A bunch of movie pirates had started using my FTP area as their personal storage/transfer area and had run something like 3GB through my computer before it was noticed. My cableco was NOT impressed.

Wouldn't matter, there is no way a hacker could get in without a valid MAC address and other security features. They would also need the special hardware.

What Cringely is proposing is a totally new way of looking at wireless access. Buy the hardware and you are allowed total access to the network as long as you give up your own wireless access point. Throw away those insecure 802.11x APs and start over the right way.

cageyjames

Cringely's article this week continues the look at WiFi....

WhyFi Not? - Bob Defends His Wireless Network Idea

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ow back to WhyFi, which you’ll recall is my idea for giving wireless access points to broadband Internet users, who would get free access to a national wireless roaming network in exchange for allowing that access through their local wireless box. Readers mainly liked the idea, but thought it would never work. Some just thought it was stupid. Who was going to pay for the backhaul –- the Internet bandwidth required to support the service? Why the people who get the free access points of course. That’s why they get free service -– in exchange for bandwidth and location. If anyone can get free service AND free equipment, won’t everyone opt to be a provider leaving the WhyFiFolk with no paying customers? No, there are still nine dialup Internet users in the U.S. for every user with broadband access so there are plenty of potential paying retail customers and a lot more business customers. For example, I have a friend who owns the Domino’s Pizza franchise for Japan, and when I explained WhyFi to him, he immediately saw the value of putting it in his 700 stores and on his 7,700 delivery scooters if it cost nothing and saved current mobile phone costs. Imagine what service like that would do for Tokyo! What’s to keep me from taking the free hardware and using it for my own purposes or selling it on eBay? That’s a lot of work to save, maybe $100, and the WhyFi equipment would probably be leased, not given, so selling it would be theft and pretty easily monitored on sites like eBay. Why would the broadband ISPs allow it? They’d allow it because they are generally in a competitive environment and users can always switch to another ISP that is friendlier. Frankly, I think that after a short period of grumbling, the ISPs will embrace this concept and try to find a way to get a piece of the action. Dane Jasper, who runs Sonic.net in Santa Rosa, is doing that by urging his broadband users to build and share their own hotspots that can be used solely by other Sonic.net broadband users. The carrot used by Dane to encourage participation is both free service, like WhyFi, and some revenue sharing applied to the DSL user’s monthly bill. Sonic has downtown Santa Rosa completely covered without spending up front for anything. He gets it. Hey, isn’t this project going to cost a lot of money? Yup, I estimate the first million nodes will cost $150 million. But since Intel is willing to invest $150 million to own just a piece of 20,000 nodes, I’d say getting a million nodes for that kind of cash is cheap. Besides, venture capitalists these days PREFER bigger investments. Won’t access points be scattered in a useless pattern? No, they’ll be scattered exactly like U.S. broadband use is scattered, which is to say the access points will be where the users are. This means poorer service in rural areas but it doesn’t mean small towns will be ill-served by any means. The biggest problem may actually be serving airports because of paid hotspot competition. It’s not like you can get very close to the terminal in anything but a taxi. And finally, what’s to keep some guy way out in the boonies from signing-up even though nobody can get close enough to share his bandwidth? If I were paying for bandwidth, I’d worry about that one. But since I am not paying for bandwidth, I don’t really mind subsidizing rural roaming.