cmms_axim

Huh? So if you write/delete/write/delete 10,000 times then you can no longer use the space?

rai_dei

i believe so yes...
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showt...&threadid=5019

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rfortune

LOL - so if I average 10 writes to it a day (which, if you just store programs & a backup there wont happen, but let's assume), then you get 3 years of usage out of it.

I doubt I'll be using my Ax in 3 years, and if I am and my built-in "goes bad" I just wont use it for storage anymore.

cmms_axim

It's not so bad, but, it sucks that there is a limit. So, from what I am reading if you reformatted you built-in-storage and reinstalled the os then you would be good for another 10,000 writes again. Can anybody confirm that?

rai_dei

It doesnt matter, since next year you will probably sell this axim and get a new, faster model, and the built-in thing will definetly last you until that time.

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Is there a porblem occifer?

cmms_axim

ya, your right. I don't even use it that much. I was just curious.
Thanks

JmE

Here is what Intel has on it (Intel Strataflash is what is in the Axim, correct?). Perhaps there are different revisions, however:

http://www.intel.com/design/flcomp/prodbref/298044.htm

Proven reliability: 100,000 cycles, up to 20 years data retention

-JmE-

rai_dei

I know way too much about my Axim, if I could only do the same thing in school....

when will dell come out with a 1ghz Axim!

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rfortune

Since now I'm interested, I did a little research. The 10,000 limit on CF cards is actually related to the connector durability (tested to 10,000 inserts).

The actual write/erase seems to be dependent on the manufacturer (or some just stop testing earlier) and varies between 300,000 and 1,000,000 cycles per logical sector.

Good luck using it that many times. :)

cmms_axim

THANKS JmE!!! So, it says proven reliability 100,000 writes or 20 years of data storage.

No worries at all then.

JmE

Questions and concerns like this used to crop up in the Palm community also as we used our Flash memory (in devices that had it) a lot. Granted, I think that I use the Flash on my Axim much more than I did on my Palms, but the general opinion then was that the product life span would most likely be exceeded before the Flash was "worn out". I would not be suprised to find other parts on the Axim (or other handhelds too) that have a MTBF that would be exceeded before the Flash was.

Also, I think the Palms were running NAND or some other type of Flash as opposed to the StrataFlash of the Axim.

However, as the Flash is internal and not eaisly replacable by most, it is a logical thing to consider.

Hope this helps someone. :)

-JmE-

cmms_axim

Hmmmmm. The viewsonic v35 uses that NAND. I was explained that that was a cheap subsitute for intels. I wonder if it has a lower # like 50,000 or even 10,000.

Do you know if the reformatt I was talking about above is poss?
thanks JmE!

JmE

Quote:

Originally posted by cmms_axim So, from what I am reading if you reformatted you built-in-storage and reinstalled the os then you would be good for another 10,000 writes again. Can anybody confirm that?

I always understood the write cycles to be electronic limitations that would not be corrected by a reformat. Much like the treads on a tire (please do not examine that little analogy too closely as there are a lot of differences ;) )

I am going to an event so I can not post links to evidence one way or another right now. If I get a chance, I might research it and post some here. Otherewise, this format info I have posted is pure speculation and educated guess on my part.

-JmE-

cmms_axim

Okay thanks again JmE. I was very interested. If you get more info please post it (if you can) or pm me.

Thanks
CMMS

JakeRich

The Built-In is ROM, not RAM. RAM can be written and re-written to millions of times. However, if you remove power from RAM, it resets to null, no memory, all data is gone. ROM, on the other hand holds that memory even when the power is removed, which makes it ideal to hold the operating system, but that durability comes at a price--it's much harder to write to and therefore cannot take the stress of being written so many times. The net affect is that ROM is rated for about 10,000 writes. What that means is that most of hte chips will last that long, with a small percentage failing earlier. Most will last longer, but every cycle past 10,000 is going to get you closer to failure.

Working backwards, if you write to ROM 14 times a day, you'll be at 10,000 in two years. There is no guarantee that on the 10,000th write it will fail, but the probability starts to climb at that point pretty steeply. BTW, it's not a ROM address that will fail, but the whole ROM writing process.

The result is, then, that you can use ROM for storage as much as you want, but I would avoid putting highly volatile files there that get changed often. Backups are fine, plus the restore software. That's how I use it. But avoid putting journals, email, web pages, anything with high volatility on that memory.