Does Dell have an official policy on the use of microdrives in the X51v?

[dp44]

The use of a microdrive is tempting. My main concern was the power draw. Looking at Hitachi spec sheets it appears that their microdrive pulls about 250 mA of current for the 3K6 line, (slightly higher for the 3K4 line). This is about 7x the power required for solidstate memory.

My primary concern was whether the CF port on the X51v was designed to provide the sustained high current required by the microdrive. I first checked the compatibilty guide on Hitachi's web site and found that the 3K6 was listed as compatible with the X50v. There was no mention of the X51v. Perhaps becuase it is too new.

Next I asked Dell tech support about the official Dell policy on using microdrives in the X51v. They did not have an answer and directed me to Aximsite! Reading posts here I know that some X51v users have reported that they are using microdrives. That is good that they are working so far. However, I wonder if the power spec on the CF port is being exceeded.

My question is this: Has anyone seen an official policy from Dell on the use of microdrives in the X51v?

Lastly, for those that are using microdrives, does the drive become warm or hot after sustained use such as when watching a movie?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[Howard2k]

250mAh is not excessive. I've seen wifi cards use more than that. It'll drain the battery pretty quick but I don't imagine there are any safety concerns.

[Axim-Rob]

Dell would never offer any official stance on microdrives. In fact, all that you will get out of them is that the port meets the standard for CFI/II. Nothing more, nothing less. As always, third party peripherals, software, etc. are used at your own risk in Dell's eyes.

Aside, the draw you are referencing is NOT sustained. It's peak. In addition, microdrives are built to comply with the port standard. If they weren't people like myself would not be using them so much in our high-end digital SLRs. Yes, the drives become warm with sustained use - they are a hard drive after all...

[darkdestroyer]

Mine became HOT after transferring large files onto it when using my CF card reader. I dont think it matters much but I wouldn't have it run all night.

[star882]

Electronic devices can stand high temperatures. Most chips are rated to 85C, with some high power chips rated to as much as 125C.
Also note that MEMS operates at about 100v, while a CF slot only supplies 5v or 3.3v. A DC/DC converter is used to step up the voltage, and it gets hot in the process.

[dp44]

Dell would never offer any official stance on microdrives. In fact, all that you will get out of them is that the port meets the standard for CFI/II. Nothing more, nothing less. As always, third party peripherals, software, etc. are used at your own risk in Dell's eyes.

Aside, the draw you are referencing is NOT sustained. It's peak. In addition, microdrives are built to comply with the port standard. If they weren't people like myself would not be using them so much in our high-end digital SLRs. Yes, the drives become warm with sustained use - they are a hard drive after all...

Dell specs the CF port as CF type I & II. Hitachci specs their microdrive as CF+ type II. Hitachi's installation instructions also advise users to confirm that the host device supports CF+ type II devices. Based upon Dell's published spec for the X51v it would appear that it does not support the Hitachi microdrive. However X51v users have reported that these drives do work. My first question was to determine if anyone had seen an official policy on microdrives since they appear to be excluded by the Dell CF port spec.

The 250mA current draw that I reference is the AVERAGE current draw for writes, not peak according to the Hitachi data sheet. By sustained I did not mean to imply a constant draw, because this will fluctuate with drive activity. I meant that if the drives require more current that the Dell port was designed for, then damage could occur to the PPC with continued use.

I agree that drives are built to conform to the port standards. However in this case the port standard does not match the drive standard (CF vs CF+).

In regard to the heat question, I realize that this is indeed a hard drive & it will heat up. The point of the question was to determine if the heat would damage the PPC.

Just out of curiosity, is the port on your high end SLR, CF or CF+?

[Axim-Rob]

Dell specs the CF port as CF type I & II. Hitachci specs their microdrive as CF+ type II. Hitachi's installation instructions also advise users to confirm that the host device supports CF+ type II devices. Based upon Dell's published spec for the X51v it would appear that it does not support the Hitachi microdrive. However X51v users have reported that these drives do work. My first question was to determine if anyone had seen an official policy on microdrives since they appear to be excluded by the Dell CF port spec.

The 250mA current draw that I reference is the AVERAGE current draw for writes, not peak according to the Hitachi data sheet. By sustained I did not mean to imply a constant draw, because this will fluctuate with drive activity. I meant that if the drives require more current that the Dell port was designed for, then damage could occur to the PPC with continued use.

I agree that drives are built to conform to the port standards. However in this case the port standard does not match the drive standard (CF vs CF+).

In regard to the heat question, I realize that this is indeed a hard drive & it will heat up. The point of the question was to determine if the heat would damage the PPC.

Just out of curiosity, is the port on your high end SLR, CF or CF+?

Let's clear the air for a second. I 'feel' by your response you may have taken my response the wrong way... I was not being harsh, I'm a matter-of-fact kind of guy - I am an engineer! So, there was no harsh tone meant in my comments.

Also, I'm trying not to make this into a technical treatise and lose everyone involved. As such, let me try to address your statements one by one in order.

First the Dell CF port is a funky hybrid. It does not fully conform to CF+ and it exceeds CF (note I/II are form factors and not anything else. CF, CF 2.0 and CF 3.0 are the 'else). Why do I say this? Because the port does more than just support ATA flash memory, it does support other I/O. However, it is not CF+ because it does not support data transfer at 16 MB/s along with some other aspects. What this means to you, and because what the specs covers, is that the Hitachi will not transfer at its maximum data rate. That's no big deal because they are backwards compatible (hopefully you won't need me to get into CF, CF 2.0, or the newest CF 3.0)...

The standard for ALL CF for amperage is 0.5Ah (500mah) without exceeding 30 degrees C rise above ambient (i.e., it'll drop off with an 86 degree F) temp increase).

The drive IS a CF II form factor! The "+" has a different meaning as I alluded to. There are ONLY two form factors: CF I and CF II.

Dell specifically indicates max temp of the Axim is 104 degrees F while in operation.

One of my SLR's is CF II and the other is CF+ II. I use Hitachi's in both and have used them in max Axim. However, I don't like the idea of a drive for the Ax because of the shock it sees.

[Planet-Ed]

I don't see how the CF and CF+ is an issue. According to what I've read the difference the the + version has is:

increases the CompactFlash interface data transfer rate from 16MB/sec to 66MB/sec, while maintaining forward and backward compatibility with old and new host systems.

So according to the CompactFlash Assosication they say the CF+ is fully compatable with "old host systems."

[star882]

The heat should not cause any damage.
Many PCMCIA cards also run hot, yet I've never heard any reports about a hot PCMCIA card damaging a laptop.

BTW, I recall that CF type II slots must provide up to 500mA, while CF type I only needs to provide 100mA.

[dp44]

Let's clear the air for a second. I 'feel' by your response you may have taken my response the wrong way... I was not being harsh, I'm a matter-of-fact kind of guy - I am an engineer! So, there was no harsh tone meant in my comments.

Also, I'm trying not to make this into a technical treatise and lose everyone involved. As such, let me try to address your statements one by one in order.

First the Dell CF port is a funky hybrid. It does not fully conform to CF+ and it exceeds CF (note I/II are form factors and not anything else. CF, CF 2.0 and CF 3.0 are the 'else). Why do I say this? Because the port does more than just support ATA flash memory, it does support other I/O. However, it is not CF+ because it does not support data transfer at 16 MB/s along with some other aspects. What this means to you, and because what the specs covers, is that the Hitachi will not transfer at its maximum data rate. That's no big deal because they are backwards compatible (hopefully you won't need me to get into CF, CF 2.0, or the newest CF 3.0)...

The standard for ALL CF for amperage is 0.5Ah (500mah) without exceeding 30 degrees C rise above ambient (i.e., it'll drop off with an 86 degree F) temp increase).

The drive IS a CF II form factor! The "+" has a different meaning as I alluded to. There are ONLY two form factors: CF I and CF II.

Dell specifically indicates max temp of the Axim is 104 degrees F while in operation.

One of my SLR's is CF II and the other is CF+ II. I use Hitachi's in both and have used them in max Axim. However, I don't like the idea of a drive for the Ax because of the shock it sees.

I was not offended by your response. I understand engineers are matter-of-fact kind of people, because I am one also. Who else besides engineers would be posting on New Years eve?

Since I only have a copy of the CF 3.0 spec, I was originally under the impression that the first CF spec capped the current at 75mA and that the CF 2.0 spec (CF+) increased it to 500mA. As long as the max current spec for a CF type II port is 500mA then there should not be any power issue with using a CF+ device in a CF speced port.

Thanks for taking the time to respond & happy new year!

I was not offended by your response. I understand engineers are matter-of-fact kind of people, because I am one also. Who else besides engineers would be posting on New Years eve?

15 year old (almost 16, 4 weeks to go!) 10th grade students......:approve:

[Pocketbrain]

...Lastly, for those that are using microdrives, does the drive become warm or hot after sustained use such as when watching a movie?...

Note that there are media players such as TCPMP have a "microdrive mode" that will cache data from the drive and then allow it to spin down, saving power.
I belive MortPlayer does this, as well. Media geeks, what are some others?

I believe GSPlayer may have a Microdrive mode, but those are the only three players I can think of off the top of my head which have it - and that does increase battery life, at least with video, in my experience. Audio's not such a big deal, since the files are smaller on average and the load times are miniscule compared to that of a 50-100MB or larger video, which keeps the drive spinning for longer.

In this situation, the BIG advantage of MD mode is that you get to reduce the number of hits to the drive as you do cache however much of the file in RAM as you can, and it also helps a bit because your CPU will probably work harder rendering video AND decoding sound than it does decoding only sound as per playing music - so every mAh counts. And it keeps the drive from spinning all the time, so that's a big benefit. Most media players cache a few megs of music anyways to ensure smooth playback, so it's less important to use MD mode with them, from my experience.

[Axim-Rob]

Who else besides engineers would be posting on New Years eve?

So true! In my defense, I had a cold one in one hand! :cheers: