Ah, I remember seeing that link, but I didn't follow it. I don't want to browse religious sites while at work though ;) I'll check it out after this weekend (I'm going to Dollywood!).
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"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"
It all boils down to faith. Let's see.... most people with a little common sense will pay to have insurance. That's taking your hard earned money and giving it to some company and having at least a little faith that when the time comes, this company will do the right thing. But you don't 100 % know that they will. But when it comes to their soul, now that's something different. Will you take out insurance for that? The proof that God exists is all around you as you've heard before, but most will believe in himself instead and choose to believe science even though science is mostly made up of theories and you would believe science without proof because you can’t believe there is anything greater then man. Arrogance, who is the most arrogant.
Most things dealing with science are accidental and to this day they can't explained how some thing’s that have been discovered work. If your faith is with science or the arguments of man, then so be it. What I choose to believe is that there is a God and that we are beneath him and we are all great sinners. You see, no matter how it chaps your butt that we Christians know the truth, you can’t change it. Your arguments mean nothing, they can only be backed up by the words of man, but man is not all knowing and never will be. Nothing man builds will last, but the word of God will. Have a good life while it lasts and May God have pity on your soul. BTW, this message is not directed to any particular person, but to all, nuf said.
Actually here in CA. (Car) insurance is required by law. So I'm not really making any choice other than who to give my money too. So since you're comparing car insurance to something like a crap shoot, is that what you are comparing christianity to? Believe and there's a chance it'll work out?
I agree with star. Science is about learning. The idea that "it's not for me to understand" is insulting.
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Your arguments mean nothing
Back at'cha :)
oh yeah and wokka wokka wokka
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John Wilker
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Or at the very least, not formulating a complete theorem
Come on star. Belief in god means you don't need to think that deeply about this science stuff or come up with any type of support for the idea.... That's how it works. :p
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John Wilker
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Cool, to use a biblical phrase - another lamb to the slaughter. Ace750dude is obviously not a scientist or, if he is, he won’t be a very successful one since he cannot put forth a logical argument for his own theories. Here’s where I think it gets interesting:
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…we Christians know the truth, you can’t change it.
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but man is not all knowing and never will be.
Anyone see a contradiction here?
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.... most people with a little common sense will pay to have insurance.
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and May God have pity on your soul.
I take this second statement to imply that Ace750dude’s idea of G-d is a vengeful god - that (unless he listens to Ace750dude and has pity on us), we’ll go to hell simply for not believing in him regardless of how ethically/morally we’ve lived our lives. I also imagine Ace750dude believes in an all-knowing god. I just wonder how that vengeful god is going to react to someone that says they believe in him simply as an insurance in case he exists?
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Nice reply, ikehiker - I just got back from the weekend, but couldn't have responded to that post any better.
Ace750dude, you show the same amount of logic as the Bible :p
As far as Pascal's wager goes (which is what you're describing your faith is based on), I've stated earlier that it is simply impossible for me and others that have similar beliefs to just say that they believe in God for the "insurance".
If there was an all knowing, powerful god, then he would clearly see through anyone who is just going through the motions in the hopes that they will go to heaven just in case.
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"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"
Many of the replies from the Christian camp talk about KNOWING they are saved, etc...As a Christian, I (and no one I know does either) do not know FOR SURE that I'm saved. There are a number of things about my religion that I don't have cold hard facts on. I simply BELIEVE these things to be true, be it faulty or not. These BELIEFS tell me that I will go to heaven.
And, speaking of religions, a common them in this thread seems to compare Muslim, Hindu, etc with Christianity. Though I'm not a theologist, all of these religions have a similar (or the same) underlying message: One supreme being. Many of the differences in the various sects of Christianity are based around worship, not around overall belief (though some may say otherwise). The same goes for the differences between Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. Many of the differences are around our worship.
And one last comment - It's widely accepted that the Bible can contradict itself in countless locations. However, I think it's important to look at the big picture - Bible as a whole. I can quote you a ton of passages from the Bible, but if you don't know the context in which they are used and why they are said (sometimes, not as literal as interpreted), then it will certainly come across as contradictory.
Geez - I hope I'm not contradicting what I say!! Anyway, everyone has the right to believe what they like, just as I do. I just hate to see people dig themselves into really deep holes by saying they KNOW, when it's really a case of BELIEF.
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