Ok, so I didnt want to read through 16 pages to see the results, so did anyone come up with a logical answer to the first question of the thread? What do you suppose happens after our physical bodies die? Im curious as to what the accepted answer(s) was/ were.
Wayfinder, I think part of the problem you are running into is the fact that some things have to be taken on faith. Everybody has faith in something. It's just that these days it seems to be more acceptable to deny any existence of God or an afterlife. As one of my philosophy instructors said, "if you don't believe or have faith in anything then you can't be held responsible for your actions, hence you can do what you want without fear of retribution", something along those lines. If you believe you are just dead and there is nothing after it doesn't matter how you live your life.
Now before you get started (Jwilker) I am not saying all "non believers" are bad I am saying that it is much easier for most people to believe that they won't be accountable for their actions.
I believe, on faith and things that have happened in my life, that when you die you will be held accountable for how you lived your life. You will be judged by A God, many call him by different names but I believe in the end we may all be talking about the same God.
Can't wait to read the thread later!!
I think you're probably right bulldog. I'm sure a lack of faith in anything allows some people to do what they want with a clear conscience. Good point
I think religion also helps some of those people by providing oversight. I think some people don't want to have to think about it and religion provides a structure on how to act.
And then there are those (whome I count myself among) that try to be upright citizens because we understand right/wrong and live our lives accordingly. I think it's possible to be a good decent human being without the oversight of a religion to keep a person in check, we have that capacity ourselves.
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Originally posted by Jwilker I think religion also helps some of those people by providing oversight. I think some people don't want to have to think about it and religion provides a structure on how to act.
i think to a certain degree you may be correct. however, based on the large number of self-help books, how to succeed in business books, diet fads . . . can you see where this is headed? i do not think this applies to just those in the church, it applies to everyone. everyone. we all seek structure to our lives. in one form or another. the habits we have - our morning routine, the organization/disorganization of our desk, our morning commutes . . . structure. if you look closely enough, this should come as no surprise since even the tiniest building blocks of existence have structure. the much bantered about DNA/RNA double-helix has immense structure. structure is inherent in our very being.
what seems to be at issue is the source of structure. is it God? is it random? is it cyclic? is it just one big cosmic game? one chooses God. can someone else see how God could be chosen? i would think so. do they have to agree with each othe? nope.
the other chooses scientific evidence. the world we know and how we know it. can someone else see how that is possible? sure. do they have to agree with each other? nope.
evolution requires a leap of faith at some point. creation also requires a leap of faith. guess it comes down to where you put your faith.
science was one of my favorite subjects in school. right next to math. when i was in college i wanted to major in math and theology. maybe come up with THE equation to prove God existed. never did get those degrees. but i wonder if i had and if i did come up with THE equation would everyone believe? i don't think so. to this day there are those who believe we never set foot on the moon. that the earth is flat see this link: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm
those who are beleivers in God's Word understand that there will always be unbelievers. the bible is . . . basic instructions before leaving earth. if you choose not to believe it - fine. but do not ask for proof of its writers from me. i accept the authors as readily as i accept the authors of the constitution and decleration of independance. and i never knew them either. is the bible the inerrant word of God? i believe it is. do you have to? no. not anymore than the anarchist of our day holds to the constitution. it is a freedom. it is a freedom of choice. that's all. it is not a pascal wager. it is something i struggled with for many years. it is a choice i have freely made based on my personal observations. it is a choice that influences my living, my politics and my relationships. it is a lifestyle. it is personal. and it is something i feel i need to share with others. not argue about.
in essence, it is the structure i have chosen over the others that are out there.
end of ramblings.
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"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." - Horace Mann :approve:
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away" - George Carlin
Originally posted by Gir Ok, so I didnt want to read through 16 pages to see the results, so did anyone come up with a logical answer to the first question of the thread? What do you suppose happens after our physical bodies die? Im curious as to what the accepted answer(s) was/ were.
Hiya Gir, and welcome to Aximsite. This is, in numerous opinions, one of the coolest forums on the net, because, well, because it is. Even with the evolutionists around. :p But that's OK... we consider their anscestry and tolerate them. (Well, you see how we are...)
Anyway, there were numerous answers in regard to this matter. The evolutionists of course, said, "We're dead." Some of the religionists stated various forms of the afterlife. I was kind of in the middle; the Bible states that "the dead are conscious of nothing" (Ecclesiastes 9:5) but that there is "a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15,16). That resurrection requires deliberate action by God... not the Greek mythical teaching of a spontaneous, conscious, intelligent "eternal soul" of somekind (which would predispose the concept of a massive future resurrection-- which the Bible foretells).
So in a nutshell-- you die, you sleep, when the time comes, God brings you back in a world cleansed of evil and wickedness (or in the case of some, heaven itself-- the choice belongs entirely to God).
But in order to attain this, there are requirements. We have to take in an accurate knowledge of God and Jesus and make it an active part of our life (John 17:3). We have to believe, have faith, help others, show love.
Those who do not accept God are not tormented forever in some imaginary hellfire (we did have a bit of debate on that one, but I'm sticking to my guns :p ). God is love, the God of perfect justice. When the wicked die, they simply cease to exist.
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Originally posted by Jwilker I think you're probably right bulldog. I'm sure a lack of faith in anything allows some people to do what they want with a clear conscience. Good point
I think religion also helps some of those people by providing oversight. I think some people don't want to have to think about it and religion provides a structure on how to act.
And then there are those (whome I count myself among) that try to be upright citizens because we understand right/wrong and live our lives accordingly. I think it's possible to be a good decent human being without the oversight of a religion to keep a person in check, we have that capacity ourselves.
You know J... those are three interesting points (and Bulldog)... and for yet a SECOND time on Aximsite, you and I are in agreement (which is scary... or was that Star50 the first time... which would be somewhat less scary :p ).
Yes, I do believe that there are many who accept evolution, atheism and agnosticism for the sole purpose that such a belief alienates them from having to answer to anyone but themselves . (not finger pointing). I do feel that's one reason why some evolutionists and atheists resist so strongly the idea of an Almighty God, despite all evidence that there is an intelligent designer of life. (Of course, we've been all over that; not trying to belabor the point). Like you said, some people refuse to accept faith, because they don't want to answer to anyone; they want to be their own God.
Your point about you doing what is right because it's right also coincides with a scripture. It is written: "For there are some who have the law of God inscribed on their hearts." Such people have a personal guideline because, regardless of their personal beliefs, God has instilled a conscience in mankind that each of us exercise to a certain degree or another. (I know I'm putting a Biblical slant on these ideas... but then, that's me. You're used to that by now).
And as you said, religion is a basis of foundation and anchor for many that would otherwise have none. I know for myself, while this was not always the case, the Bible and my religious beliefs form a firm foundation upon which I try to base all of my life and activities. I'm of the belief that the foundation teachings of Christianity are solid and like Ghandi said, 'If we were to live by the teachings of Jesus Christ, then we would solve the problems of the whole world.'
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:)http://Truesite.org .... There's something there for everybody.:)
Almost Irish (free MP3s) -- Quest of the Turtle -- Personality Evaluation (free download) -- Wayfinder's Homepage... and more.
Originally posted by hnelson59 evolution requires a leap of faith at some point. creation also requires a leap of faith. guess it comes down to where you put your faith.
those who are beleivers in God's Word understand that there will always be unbelievers. the bible is . . . basic instructions before leaving earth. if you choose not to believe it - fine. but do not ask for proof of its writers from me. i accept the authors as readily as i accept the authors of the constitution and decleration of independance. and i never knew them either. is the bible the inerrant word of God? i believe it is. do you have to? no. not anymore than the anarchist of our day holds to the constitution.
it is a freedom. it is a freedom of choice. that's all. it is not a pascal wager. it is something i struggled with for many years. it is a choice i have freely made based on my personal observations. it is a choice that influences my living, my politics and my relationships. it is a lifestyle. it is personal. and it is something i feel i need to share with others. not argue about.
HN, I think this is one of my favorite statements thus far on this thread. It is an accurate statement of Christianity, why we choose to believe the Bible and our obligations to (and limit of) and expectations of (and limit of) other people.
We believe because we have reason to belive. We feel obligated to help others to understand if they desire to do so, but if they do not, that is their choice.
Sometimes we may find a need to defend our faith in the strongest terms (as Jesus was sometimes forced to do in the face of lying attackers and slanderers of the will of God) but that is all part of the necessity of faith upon us. Just as we would strongly defend the honor and name of our earthly father, so too our heavenly one.
__________________
:)http://Truesite.org .... There's something there for everybody.:)
Almost Irish (free MP3s) -- Quest of the Turtle -- Personality Evaluation (free download) -- Wayfinder's Homepage... and more.
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