Archived - A thread about nothing....

[Jwilker]

(Of course, we've been all over that; not trying to belabor the point). Like you said, some people refuse to accept faith, because they don't want to answer to anyone; they want to be their own God.

Try harder at not belaboring the point. ;)

The one thing that I think you can't accept, at least it seems like this. I don't want to be my own god, I don't worship science as a god (as you stated like 2-3 times, evolutionist do)

The concept of god is yours. So I (and I assume most other intelligent folks who don't believe in god) aren't trying to be gods or see ourselves as anythig special. Rather we (atleast I) see the choices available and make the one we feel is right.

"See a puppy. A) Kick it B) pet it" I don't need to worship a god to know which choice is right.


bulldog. Because :D
Your statement is slanted such that it reads like we have alterior motives and god complexes.

[hnelson59]

Originally posted by Jwilker
"See a puppy. A) Kick it B) pet it" I don't need to worship a god to know which choice is right.

this one is more appropriate to the "God" thing . . .

see a lady who has been married 5 times, is living with another man now and is not of accepted upbringing
a) ignore her existance
b) tell her how wrong she is or
c) offer her hope

which will it be? ;)

[Jwilker]

help her how?

Help her "Find god"? She know's where the church is. Give her a buck if she asked? Sure. Ignore her. Probably not.

Her lifestyle and upbringing may not be acceptable to you but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Let's not pretend christians don't get divorced. She's obviously unlucky in love. Will god send her a man?


Finding god may help her not be so down on her life but she could accomplish that herself with a little will power.

Churches are usually well lit and well advertised, we know where they are, we don't need help finding them. Those who get lured in from some off the street missionary are weak minded (no offense) and were just looking for someone to think for them.

[hnelson59]

you took the bait rather quickly. hehehe. sorry - sort of. here is the story behind the question.

John 4:4-26


Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman

Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob's well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about the sixth hour.
When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, "Will you give me a drink?" (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)
The Samaritan woman said to him, "You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?" (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)
Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."
"Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 1Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?"
Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
The woman said to him, "Sir, give me this water so that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water."
He told her, "Go, call your husband and come back."
"I have no husband," she replied.
Jesus said to her, "You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true."
"Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he." (From the NIV translation)

no condemnation was shown to her by jesus. his example is what is to be followed. how to treat others whose lives may be in a worse state of affairs than ours. she was not lured. she was shown compassion. jesus offered to her a new lifestyle. a new perspective. he was a jew, she a samaritan. he chose to break tradition - law - and speak with her. tell her that she was loved.

a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away there was a song "what the world needs now" it was "love sweet love. not just for some but for everyone" (or something like that). the world still needs it. jesus offers it.

jesus showed her a structure she did not know existed. she accepted it and shared with her entire city.

[Jwilker]

A good story. I love people. I love my family. I love my dogs. I don't think jesus invented love nor is he the only source. :)

I think if some one can't love themselves for who they are, their problems run deep, and an easy out like, "jesus loves everyone and we love you no matter what." is very inviting.

Obivously this isn't the case for everyone, I don't mean to imply that. Choosing the christian life is certainly a valid option.

[hnelson59]

Originally posted by Jwilker
Choosing the christian life is certainly a valid option.

ya know j, i appreciate that statement. :)

by the way, what kinda dogs do you have. i have a lab mix (with pit bull i have been told) who is strong as an ox, smart and is great with the grandkids. his name is BeBo. 75 pounds of raw energy! :D

[Jwilker]

Originally posted by hnelson59
ya know j, i appreciate that statement. :)

by the way, what kinda dogs do you have. i have a lab mix (with pit bull i have been told) who is strong as an ox, smart and is great with the grandkids. his name is BeBo. 75 pounds of raw energy! :D

I'm not anti religion at all. To each his own, I say.

Retriever/shar pei mix. One is almost all retreiver except he has wrinkly skin under the hair. Gentle as any thing. Big as an ox, happy as a clam. 85 pounds of energy. His name is Phillip.

His brother Terrance is mostly shar pie. Wrinkles. piggy tail, muscle and anger. He's great but not a people person. I sometimes think he wishes I would move away :) but under the anger he' a sweety. He likes to curl up on the bed when no one is around.

They're great. Everyone should have a dog.

[Wayfinder]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jwilker
Try harder at not belaboring the point. ;)

But... but... but... I want to... :p

The concept of god is yours. So I (and I assume most other intelligent folks who don't believe in god) aren't trying to be gods or see ourselves as anythig special. Rather we (atleast I) see the choices available and make the one we feel is right.

I understand what you're saying, but understand from my point... that is being your own God. You want to make choices you feel is right-- rather than the choices God states are right. Of course, we all have a certain ability to make our own choices. That was granted in creation. But it's just like a parent who trains a child to do what is right. He eventually lets go and allows that child to make his own decisions-- but at the same time, expects them to be the right decisions based upon existing laws and principles.

While I understand fully that you're just wanting to be a rational, free-willed human being and make the right choices, from my viewpoint and the viewpoint of the Bible, those who make such decision without regard to God's will, are usurping his rightful position. Ie... they want to be their own God-- whether they realize it or not.

See, in my experience, the concept of whether there is or isn't a God is not the issue. There is. It's just a matter of who's trying to fill that position. :)

[Wayfinder]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hnelson59
you took the bait rather quickly. hehehe. sorry

I almost chuckled at that one HN. But I was too sad that J thought he had a proper answer to your query. Are we to expect this woman to "get by" on her own? J doesn't grasp the concept of sin/forgiveness on a universal scale.

How damaging it can be to be totally ostracised by society (to the point the poor woman came to the well in the heat of mid-day rather than face the local towns women at morning) and was bearing the burdens of her unhappy situation!

Just telling a woman, "Hey, pick yourself up," or giving her a buck or two if she needs it, doesn't fill the bill. Jesus gave her the knowledge necessary to relieve herself of her burdens and gain everlasting life... true hope.

And J... granted, Jesus isn't the only one who has ever shown love. He's just the ultimate example.

[Jwilker]

See, in my experience, the concept of whether there is or isn't a God is not the issue. There is. It's just a matter of who's trying to fill that position.

and in my experience those who think that are deluded :) and closed minded ;)

[Jwilker]

proper answer to your query

says you. The answer was proper in my book.

Are we to expect this woman to "get by" on her own? J doesn't grasp the concept of sin/forgiveness on a universal scale.

Well since those are your concepts you're right. I have no time for people who can't live with the consequences of their actions. The best cure for slutty-ness. Stop being one (5 husbands leads me to that conclusion, as does the current man not being her husband). You and Jesus can love her all you like but if she doesn't stop doing the things she does that don't work her life won't change. She may find artificial solace that "God has her back" but her life will suck. Is God just used to anesthetize people to their problems?

Just telling a woman, "Hey, pick yourself up," or giving her a buck or two if she needs it, doesn't fill the bill. Jesus gave her the knowledge necessary to relieve herself of her burdens and gain everlasting life... true hope.

Hogwash. Typical hogwash

"Hey your lif sucks. You're outa work, poor, and dirty. But You know what? God loves ya though so it's all good. Now get on with your dirty, poor, outta work self."

If he had wanted to help he coulda helped her geta job. Help her move to a new town where her past might not hinder her. Give her some money to buy decent clothes and get that next job she interviewed for.

Being loved doesn't fill the tummy.

I grasp a lot of things. Closed minded condescention of others, I don't grasp that. I should start taking notes though.

[Jwilker]

that is being your own God

Only to you.

[hnelson59]

Originally posted by star50fiveoh
Well now, ya see......it all depends.

If she was my Ex, you'd get one answer. If she was a current cohabiter in my home, you'd likely get another.

And if she was Retired Obnoxious Roy's current Gold-digger (he of the boring home movies and excellent scotch).........you would certainly get a completely different answer!..........I ga-roan-teee!

star - must admit i had to laugh here. i know your profile says your location is "Out there ..........thattaway!" just for grins would that be the north south east or west thattaway?

and do you like jeff foxworthy?

[Jwilker]

who doesn't like jeff foxworthy?

I think he's south of thattaway and just a little east of yonder. Am I right?

[hnelson59]

Originally posted by Jwilker
Hogwash. Typical hogwash

"Hey your lif sucks. You're outa work, poor, and dirty. But You know what? God loves ya though so it's all good. Now get on with your dirty, poor, outta work self."

If he had wanted to help he coulda helped her geta job. Help her move to a new town where her past might not hinder her. Give her some money to buy decent clothes and get that next job she interviewed for.

Being loved doesn't fill the tummy.

j - if i may . . . . you're right

James 2:14-26
Faith and Deeds

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder.
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. (from the NIV translation)

"For it is written . . . "