Originally posted by Jwilker and in my experience those who think that are deluded :) and closed minded ;)
J... someday soon you're going to find out what deluded and closed minded really means. And I hope it's due to meekness on your part and not absolute shock.
I'll treat your messages with respect as long as they deserve it. But when you fail to show respect... none can be shown in return.
You show no respect for God, nor for other's belief in God and you taunt the Almighty based on your limited human perception. I don't care what you believe... that's a foolish thing to do.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by hnelson59 j - if i may . . . . you're right
HN... obviously J didn't understand what you meant here, so if I may insert a thought about his message:
Jwilker... your perception of this situation is based 100% on fleshly, physical concepts. That you are not spiritually minded is obvious... but that doesn't make the faith of billions of people hogwash... especially when a significant number of your scientists feel your beliefs in evolution are hogwash (as we have amply proven on this thread).
What you fail to understand is that Jesus didn't just talk to the woman and tell her to be on her way. Prior to his coming she had obviously been ostrasized from her people due to her lifestyle. When Jesus revealed to her openly that he was the Christ and she had evidence to believe this was so, she went to the elders of the town and invited them to come see Jesus.
They apparently thought enough of her experience to do as she said... and came to the conclusion for themselves that she was correct. Jesus stayed for two days with those people, teaching them, helping them to understand God.
Jesus had the ability to read minds and hearts (of course J, it's obvious that you won't allow any of this, but that's beside the point). He would not have revealed himself to this woman if he hadn't already searched her out and determined that down deep, she had a desire to do what is right. Since this account is listed so prominently in the Bible, undoubtedly Jesus' visit had a profound effect on her life and those of the townspeople. We can surmise from the tone of the account that it is most likely she turned around and corrected her errors and that the townspeople, who now accepted Jesus as the Messiah, formed a new relationship with her for having revealed him to them.
The Bible did not state she was poor, or without money, or needy. She was in need SPIRITUALLY... and that is exactly what Jesus provided.
What Jesus provides us is a way to reconcile ourselves to our heavenly Father. This removes us from a state of certain death and provides us with the guidance of the Holy Spirit (which apparently, you've either never experienced or have flatly ignored), a certain hope for the future and eternal life.
I don't think you, or your scientists, can do that. Even ignoring the other things, you certainly offer no hope.
I personally find it difficult to understand someone who has been alive only a few short decades, could be so full of himself and confident of his own opinion based on limited experience, that he fully disregards the possiblity that there is a being who is more powerful and smarter than himself who just might have had the power to create him. I observe rather than insult(*)... but to me that seems a most arrogant attitude on the part of any man.
* however if you feel comfortable in insulting God Himself, I think no less is due in return. When a man is conceited enough to openly insult and jeer Almighty God Himself, I think he deserves what's coming to him. (Hopefully of course, he'll wise up and show some humility before it comes to that.)
Even if you don't believe in God, you could show some respect.
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:) I sure wasn't expecting you to take Hnelson's post and completely spin it so that it not only insults those who don't agree with you but takes on a much more agressive tone. Oh wait, I did expect that. I think HN said it fine without your help though.
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someday soon you're going to find out what deluded and closed minded really means
Oh believe me, I know already ;) but I'm glad it's ok for you to be-little me, by all means if you must.
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You show no respect for God, nor for other's belief in God and you taunt the Almighty based on your limited human perception. I don't care what you believe... that's a foolish thing to do.
I'm sorry. How so? Well he's not my almighty and since I don't believe in his existance it really doesn't matter. You can be insulted for him if you'd like. I would hope (if he exists) his skin is thicker than that. But I'll await my lightning bolt.
I'd like to think my perception is slightly superhuman. Maybe something like spider-man or Captain america.. Not superman though, that's pretty deep.
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That you are not spiritually minded is obvious
I should hope to shout. If after all this time that isn't clear I have been wasting my time. :) though just because I refuse to accept your spewing doesn't mean I have no spiritual side.
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but that doesn't make the faith of billions of people hogwash
Actually I was just calling your post hogwash. I would never call the faith of billions hogwash. Your line about jesus giving her knowledge... true hope... I think I have that line somewhere in the pile of countless "Our churh is here for you" fliers I find on my front door.
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Jesus had the ability to read minds
Like the lady from Jamaica on the TV?
Won't allow what? Someone to read my mind. Not if I could stop it. Might as well read my mail and tap my phone while at it. It's easy to walk up and know all about my troubles if you just dug around in my brain and found what you needed. Flimflam is what that sounds like. Was that the point you were going for?
So we don't know what happenned to this woman? We have to assume it all worked out ok, because that's what always happens, but conveniently her life in the weeks to follow wasn't important enough to document... convenient.
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The Bible did not state she was poor, or without money, or needy. She was in need SPIRITUALLY... and that is exactly what Jesus provided.
I'm glad he was able to help her in any way he could. That's the right thing to do. I hope he told her to stop sleeping around. Are slutty followers allowed? Probably didn't cover that though huh?
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What Jesus provides us is a way to reconcile ourselves to our heavenly Father
If that's what you need then I'm glad you found it. Whatever the source no one should be without some sort of measure or reconciliatory device. Otherwise we have no control of ourselves. Where you find this is of no concern to me. I found mine within me. The internal dialoge with myself is probably pretty similar to what you do in prayer. Weigh actions, evaluate choices, review the choices made, prepare for choices on the horizon.
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I don't think you, or your scientists, can do that. Even ignoring the other things, you certainly offer no hope.
They're really not mine. I borrowed most of them from my friend James. He has a few doubles so he let me use them. His set is much more complete than mine.
As I've said. If you need a God to hope for the future go for it. My hope for the future is in mankind. It's in me, my friends, my work. I wake up everyday with the goal to work towards a positive outcome. It's not my job to offer hope to anyone but myself. We need to look at ourselves not others to affect change. OR we can sit around and do nothing waiting for the promised goodness to come. To each his own.
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I personally find it difficult to understand someone who has been alive only a few short decades, could be so full of himself and confident of his own opinion based on limited experience, that he fully disregards the possiblity that there is a being who is more powerful and smarter than himself who just might have had the power to create him. I observe rather than insult(*)... but to me that seems a most arrogant attitude on the part of any man.
Ah so I'm young, not THAT young, so I must be stupid. Uneducated? Misinformed. Weren't you talking about respect up above somewhere. You're not showing me much by insulting my intelligence and ability to reason based on my age. You have no idea what my limited years have held. That's arrogant and presumptuous. You don't observe. You insult. Almost every post is insulting to everyone who doesn't agree with you. We all seem to be unable to think for ourselves, we're young and stupid, we're misinformed and closed minded. That's pretty insulting to me.
So you're god's enforcer? Executing vengeance and wrath on his behalf?
Not to insult HN and bulldog and the other religious members who have been very respectful of everyone here.
This
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Even if you don't believe in God, you could show some respect.
is kind of like me telling you to show respect for my belief in evolution. Since my belief is so idiotic, misinformed, uneducated, and so on. What do you think my response is? :)
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John Wilker
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Originally posted by star50fiveoh .
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Harry....I'm surprised at you! Being a submariner, I'da thought you knew how figure antipodes (and thus their originating point).
sorry, mate. i was the nuclear reactor operator - not the driver. i made the steam that turned the prop. i did look up "antipode" so i will keep trying off and on. anytime ya wanna give me another clue, feel free. otherwise guess i gotta work with what i'm given! :crooked:
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Harold Nelson, USN, ETC(SS), retired
"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." - Horace Mann :approve:
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away" - George Carlin
I saw a post a few pages back where there was a general comment that without feeling that we'll be judged in the afterlife there is no incentive to be a good person now.. I'm paraphrasing but I see this argument quite a bit from religious folk. That's pretty scary. Basically the imply that the only reason they don't go and rape and pillage en masse is because they fear God.
To me that seems pretty weak minded. I don't believe in God but I don't need any afterlife incentive to know the difference between right and wrong.
Why do I not go and steal things? Because it's wrong, not because I'm afraid of what god might do.
Anyway, wanted to add my 2 cents. Sorry it's late.
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Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it.
Originally posted by star50fiveoh .
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Aren't submarines Navy? Doesn't the Navy teach you guys some basic Navigation skills in case you find yourself adrift in a dingy?
yes and then no. if my submarine went down in operational waters it would be a slow trip to join davey jones and ya don't need a dingy for that!
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