Originally posted by Jwilker I don't expect an answer but I will ask none the less. (without leveling insult, or flaming) Wayfinder I would like to know the scientific processes you employed to come to your logical and scientifically sound decision? Surely a man of science performed experiments of some sort. Made endless observations? Calculations? interviews with other scientists and religious people alike to weigh both sides of the coin?
How did you come to your conclusions? Reading the bible cover to cover isn't really research or scientific. So if that was to be your answer....
I'm not trying to flame ya. I areally am curious. You go to great lengths to point out the scientific nature of your decision, the logic of it. That you've scientifically proven the bible to be 100% right.
I'll even grant you the prophecy stuff. There's enough room for interpretation that those very well could be fulfilled. What else?
Answered this already. Several times. Sorry ya missed it, or failed to understand. No desire to repeat the same thing over and over.
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It's not at all like a child who grabs some cookies. It's more like an idiot teenager who tells a loving father to go to and stuff it.
We raise a child. We do the best we can. We teach laws, morals, principles. He becomes a teenager. He falls in with the wrong crowd. He's haughty. He thinks he knows everything. He thinks he's bulletproof. He cusses us out daily and tells us where to go and endangers the other members of the household. He tells us he doesn't have to follow our rules (despite the fact that we're paying the bills and own the house) and causes problems every day. He tells us, his parents who have raised him, he doesn't need us, doesn't love us, doesn't want us. Finally he decides to rebel and leave (or he his kicked out of the house for being too divisive).
Well I was a teen and my mom still never left me :)
Man sounds like you knew some rotten teens. Many are nothing like that. Being of such limited years I know this :)
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No. He reaps what he sows. As long as he continues to exhibit that attitude, he has no right to expect his parents to have anything to do with him. They didn't disown him-- he disowned them. And if he calls and says, "Dad, I got drunk and they threw me in jail. Come and bail me out,"... the dad will likely let this little rebellious twit STAY in jail.
I've never in my life met a parent like the one you describe.
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John Wilker
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ill say this..and i am by far not the poster child for Bible thumping or shoving God down your throat...so with that said..
it wasnt God who abandoned you..or us..WE abandoned him..think about it..we abandoned him.
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If you just 'think' about it.......
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JeepfanEd
Originally posted by Wayfinder Answered this already. Several times. Sorry ya missed it, or failed to understand. No desire to repeat the same thing over and over.
Guess I did. Maybe it was added after the post was made? I read every post on every page as this thread wound on, but haven't gone back to re-read your editings.
Oh well, I'll just take you're word for it :bang:
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John Wilker
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Originally posted by Jwilker Well I was a teen and my mom still never left me :)
Man sounds like you knew some rotten teens. Many are nothing like that. Being of such limited years I know this :)
I've never in my life met a parent like the one you describe.
Man, I can see the problem now J.... you're totally out of touch with reality! ;)
Such people and situations ABOUND.
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Almost Irish (free MP3s) -- Quest of the Turtle -- Personality Evaluation (free download) -- Wayfinder's Homepage... and more.
Originally posted by Wayfinder We raise a child. We do the best we can. We teach laws, morals, principles. He becomes a teenager. He falls in with the wrong crowd. He's haughty. He thinks he knows everything. He thinks he's bulletproof. He cusses us out daily and tells us where to go and endangers the other members of the household. He tells us he doesn't have to follow our rules (despite the fact that we're paying the bills and own the house) and causes problems every day. He tells us, his parents who have raised him, he doesn't need us, doesn't love us, doesn't want us. Finally he decides to rebel and leave (or he his kicked out of the house for being too divisive).
The problem with your analogy is that parents are not figments of your imagination.
How many bad analogies is that now, JWilker? I lost count.
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"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"
Originally posted by Jwilker Guess I did. Maybe it was added after the post was made? I read every post on every page as this thread wound on, but haven't gone back to re-read your editings.
Oh well, I'll just take you're word for it :bang:
Your repeated accusations that I intentionally change posts to suit my purpose is slanderous and unworthy. Believe me, I have no need to edit posts to refute your arguments.
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:)http://Truesite.org .... There's something there for everybody.:)
Almost Irish (free MP3s) -- Quest of the Turtle -- Personality Evaluation (free download) -- Wayfinder's Homepage... and more.
Sorry, didn't mean to impugn your character, I merely pointed out that your posts are edited quite often after being read. Since I don't don't screen capture each of them I can't tell what has changed. I was merely pointing out a fact.
However, since I recall no such post indicating the process you went through beyond,
"being force to learn evolution in school and then reading the bible and seeing it was the truth..." I assumed your real scientific approach had been added later on.
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John Wilker
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Jwilker, ikehiker, star50fiveoh ... do you ever get the feeling that we're like the good super heros and have to play by different rules than the bad guys? In the comic books, the good guys always had to worry about the civilians or their loved ones dying and had to be that much better than their adversaries.
Similarly, arguing the case of evolution and against religion we are bound by logic and science, but creationists and fundamentalists have no such restriction. They can use whatever interpretations and almighty power that they want to justify things. It almost doesn't seem fair!
:p
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"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"
You see, I think part of the problem here isn't that we play by different rules. It's that the question requires all of us to step out of conventional thinking.
Science can't prove the existence of God, so many then assume there isn't one.
Believers on the other hand (many not all of us) believe in God and the idea of creationism. Now with our limited minds and knowledge we will NEVER know how it all took place. For me and I am sure others it doesn't really matter. Faith in a higher power lets us not worry about the how's of certain things.
Hard liners on both sides can't accept each others views. Maybe we need to go back to our high school days and take a lesson from the debate teams. They had to know and understand both sides, didn't have to agree with both just had to make an honest effort to see the other side.
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