Archived - A thread about nothing....

[jeepfaned]

hey howard..chill..i didnt say that..nor do i believe that,its not for me to judge or hand down punishment...i agree,its not right that those people who do that think that "oh,im a preacher,i can sin and touch kids..and ask for forgiveness and all is well" when u know its wrong and u do it anyway,God turns a blind eye to you...it says somethin like that in the Bible..if u know its wrong and u do it anyway,youre not truely saved...in my book.
i never said anything about --So Jeepfan is saying that whether you're a good person or not, if you're not part of his religon you go to hell.

but the power of God shows how forgiving he is..and is more pure then human cuz he can forgive,any sin..dont matter what we humans think or fell,he is above us.
maybe he can forgive me for wanting to cut the tounge and arms and legs off of a priest who would try to do somethin like that to my kids...see..we all feel anger like that,i dont think its right that so many "Godly people" who claim to be so close to God use that as a crutch and excuse to do the evil things they do,and turn around and feel like "please forgive me,i know God does,i was wrong" (tammy fay and jim baker-or whatever his name was).
theres just too many bad people in place where good people should be..so obviously religion looks bad these days.

[geneb]

Howard, I did not say

Geneb is saying that if you read his scripture (not his personally, but the scripture that he believes) you go to heaven. Otherwise you're hell bound.

The Bible is God's Word. He speaks to us through His Word to tell us about Himself and how He wants us to live. If you choose not to live the way God said than you are out of His will.

Sin is being out of God's will, regardless of how far. The person who hates the guy in the next car who just cut him off is out of God's will. The Catholic priest who abuses children is out of God's will. The fact that we want to dismember the priest is because we are human.

God sees us all as His children. You don't stop loving your children because they do something bad, but you can't always protect them from the consequences of their actions either.

[jeepfaned]

well put gene

[Xyress]

*applause* :D

Well said Howard2k!

And to add my own thoughts ...

Everyone thinks that they have the answer - that they know ... what makes you so arrogant to think that you are the only one in the club (and by "you" I mean anyone who says that they know where they're going when they die or that they know the truth, etc.)?

How many of you that "know" the truth were born into your religion? How far have you really searched for the "answer"? Do you think it might be a coincidence that you're in a predominantly Christian society and Christianity is the "correct" religion? Talk about a lucky roll!

There's a great book I read a few years ago called The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read ... I highly recommend it. If you ever wondered where you religion came from, this will give you a clue. Has it ever seemed odd to you that Christianity wasn't around since the dawn of history? You'd think that God would want everyone to have a fair chance at being saved, right? Even the Old Testament was written ... what, like several hundred years BC? Why did it take so long for them to write it down?

The basic point here is that you should allow yourself to take a step back and look at the whole situation as to why you should take a 2000+ year old book for the truth.

And to bring this back on topic :p what's the point of life here on Earth if there is a heaven? Is this really just a game for the almighty?

[Xyress]

Originally posted by geneb
The power and PRESENCE of the Holy Spirit is the difference between true Christianity and all other religions.

Please read the entire post before making sarcastic comments.

I certainly did read the whole post. Do you think that Muslims and Hindus do not claim to feel the presence of God? Do you really think that you are unique in your religion? Please use some perspective.

[jeepfaned]

i for myself know im going to heaven after i die...just like you know..that you are not..or dont..or just stop living and thats it,game over...or whatever you "know". or if you dont know,why doubt or second guess what someone else knows in their own heart and mind? i dont doubt what you feel or think,i dont care,i know for myself and am content with that. we are all free to feel what we want on earth,feel and "know" what you want..ill do the same.

[Xyress]

Originally posted by jeepfaned
i for myself know im going to heaven after i die...just like you know..that you are not..or dont..or just stop living and thats it,game over...or whatever you "know". or if you dont know,why doubt or second guess what someone else knows in their own heart and mind? i dont doubt what you feel or think,i dont care,i know for myself and am content with that. we are all free to feel what we want on earth,feel and "know" what you want..ill do the same.

... um ... I guess you just don't know what the word "know" means then? I don't know anything about the afterlife or super powers. I can only make educated guesses. I feel very strongly that the Bible was written by man, but there's always that slim chance that it actually was inspired by God (directly or indirectly).

IMHO, I think it's pretty arrogant to think you know the answer to something that you cannot know.

[Howard2k]

Guys,

I'm chilled. Seriously :) And I don't recally if I said it or not but I think there is value in religions in certain situations. And I respect your right to practice it just as I have the right to express my lack of belief :) So no hard feelings :)

But you both responded that you didn't say what I said that you said.

Jeepfan. The quote that I quoted (:)) was one of yours. Then you posted in your own words what I said. You stated that:

So Jeepfan is saying that whether you're a good person or not, if you're not part of his religon you go to hell

and

but the power of God shows how forgiving he is..and is more pure then human cuz he can forgive,any sin..dont matter what we humans think or fell,he is above us.

. So you're saying that if the priest molests 1 or 1 million little kids (and either way it's bad) God can still forgive him and he can get to heaven. Yet your neighbour who will lend you the shirt off his back, mow your lawn if you break your leg and is truly an all around good guy but happens to not believe in your religion (make him athiest, 7th day adventist, muslim or whatever) will go to hell.

Tell me if I am misinterpreting your words. In summary the priest can ask for forgiveness and get it. The guy next door who is a great guy is damned.


Geneb. You said

You either read the course curriculum (scripture), learn what is necessary, and pass the course.

I said:

Geneb is saying that if you read his scripture (not his personally, but the scripture that he believes) you go to heaven. Otherwise you're hell bound

I paraphrased but I believe I have the same meaning. Perhaps I'm just being a little more blunt.

Anyway, not trying to put words in the mouths (or fingers) of either of you. Could just be my interpretation.

Most of the bible (I've read it) is a "good message". It's not telling people to go and kill, (well, it DOES actually, but that's not the overriding message) it doens't tell people to go and steal (I don't think). It doesn't tell people to go and hate everyone. Well, apart from non-believers :).

Anyway, there is a general good tone in the bible, even though IMHO parts of it are truly ridiculous.

So if someone IS living a good life in the sprit of the bible (apart from sleeping with his brothers sister etc.) then even though he is "close" to the word of God apart from the actual beliving in God part, he will still not get to heavan while the child molester will. I just want to be sure that we're clear on this part.

Becuase if we are, then that looks to me lik vanity on God's part. Before we all get offended here let me explain. When you were at school remember there were the clubs where to be a member you had to say that "John is the best!" where John was the "leader" of the club? I see a striking similarity here. And if John was considered vain for not letting people in his club unless they think he is "the best" then is God not vain for not letting people in his club (heavan) unless they think that HE is the best. Regardless of how good a person is. In fact this person could live life to the LETTER of the bible (well, the good parts) but just happen to be in the wrong religion and he's still going to hell. Just because he did not say that John was the best.


Anyway, please don't respond angrily to the post, it's not mean that way. I'm writing it calmly. You have every right to be offended by it but it's not written with that intention. It's a sensitive subject and I respect that.



Perhaps I am also misinterpreting that one.

[jeepfaned]

sorry you have to feel the need to pass judgement on me...im not arrogant..im confident because thats the way i believe. i dont expect someone to understand my thoughts who does not believe in God.
kind of like trying to get a kid to understand e=mc2
when they dont understand what 2+2 is....and thats not a slam,,im just using that as an example. :)

[jeepfaned]

accually my words were this..to howard and papa...one thing that was told to me many years ago is.."good people dont go to heaven...saved people do"
but that says nothing about anyone going to hell,someone else must have said or assumed that...i didnt use the word hell..cuz how can u believe in hell if u dont believe in heaven?
but i do agree with you on questioning how the priest can be saved,but the good ol boy cant..maybe God feels it is a greater sin to ignore your maker then to repent..i dont know..im just a long haired 38 year ol guy who drives a jeep..im no one special. :)

[geneb]

Geneb. You said
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You either read the course curriculum (scripture), learn what is necessary, and pass the course.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I said:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geneb is saying that if you read his scripture (not his personally, but the scripture that he believes) you go to heaven. Otherwise you're hell bound
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I paraphrased but I believe I have the same meaning. Perhaps I'm just being a little more blunt.


No, you just missed my meaning.

Read the course curriculum (scripture), LEARN what is necessary (how God says we should live, and put it into practice), and pass the course (please God).

As for God being vain: vain? The Creator of the Universe? The perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent Creator of everything?

If He is then who has a better right to be?

[Jwilker]

Originally posted by geneb
As for God being vain: vain? The Creator of the Universe? The perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent Creator of everything?

If He is then who has a better right to be?

Ok I got a question regarding this. I won't try and comment on the last page and some change (I can't believe you guys waited until I was on the freeway to get so verbose LOL)

From the bits and pieces I have read of the bible and such it sounds like god used to be pretty involved in the world (burning bush, red seas) and such. truly miraculous acts. so where is now? I know the second coming is coming up and all but in the meantime he's forsaken us?

That same annoying guy who ruined my car wash said something that struck me as interesting.

"Now that I have found god I know he's with me. Don't get me wrong bad stuff still happens but I know God is with me."

OK so why is he letting bad things happen now when he was saving people from lions dens' and whale stomachs and what not. Is there no benefit in this life? It's all for the next?

[jeepfaned]

cuz we on earth deserve nothing....we have to earn it,we earn life in heaven by being saved and believing in God

thats the way i see it...again,i may be wrong.
God said (i assume) you dont have to believe in me,i give u the choice..but if u do..and repent your sins and are saved (and a few other things like the 10 commandments) then my kingdom awaits you...heaven.
but thats just in my own words there

[jeepfaned]

hey there star...good point..short..simple...sooooo deep!!

[Jwilker]

man that kinda blows. created us to suffer through life just for some later "Reward" sure not a very nice way to treat your creations.

I'll pass ;)