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Old 09-18-03, 07:30 PM   #781 (permalink)
jeepfaned
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oh i got your crazy point...dont believe it..but i got it. funny how you think Christians dont play by the rules..we play by Gods rules..which are more important then yours.
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Old 09-18-03, 07:32 PM   #782 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeepfaned
then you just contradicted yourself with this........
I think you misread his post. He said he doesn't believe in either.
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Old 09-18-03, 07:34 PM   #783 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeepfaned
then you just contradicted yourself with this........

"as one is a result of the other."

how can 1 be if the 1st isnt there to begin with...in your book?
i assume you mean that the devil is a result of God..but if you dont believe in God..then how can the devil be a result of God if he doesnt exist?

you admitted up there that....as one is a result of the other."

i dont understand that
*sigh* jeepfaned, I wanted to preface this with "no offense" but there's really no other way that this can come across ...

You either have a hard time understanding simple comments or you're just being belligerent.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt and you do in fact have a hard time understanding things, his point was that without God, there is no devil. The devil is the result of God (God created Lucifer according to the Bible) ... he does not believe such a god ever existed, therefore he does not believe a devil ever existed.

As an addendum, I use "God" to refer to the proper noun for the Christian god and "god" to refer to the noun "god" for supreme beings. I do it because I feel that using the lower-case "god" when talking about the Christian god can be perceived as an insult and I don't want your perceptions of my arguments to be baseless insults.
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Old 09-18-03, 07:34 PM   #784 (permalink)
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i read it right..he said one is a result of the other...but how can there be a result if there is nothing there(in his eyes) to begin with
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Old 09-18-03, 07:41 PM   #785 (permalink)
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xyress...i might be a little hard headed but not belligerent...i know what he meant,just twisting the knife like all the non believers do when asking us to prove God exist.
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Old 09-18-03, 07:41 PM   #786 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jwilker
I don't.
Direct quote in response to your question. He said he doesn't believe in the devil. He tried to explain that by saying one is the result of the other. As I said (and as jw just said in a longer post), you either misread or you fail to understand simple english. BTW, just in case you missed my last post, go back and read why I use G-d in my writing. I too, like jw, have no issue with writing god and do it frequently in my previous posts.
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Old 09-18-03, 07:46 PM   #787 (permalink)
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i didnt misread and i do understand simple english.....i just wanted him to answer the question.
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Old 09-18-03, 07:56 PM   #788 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeepfaned
i didnt misread and i do understand simple english.....i just wanted him to answer the question.
Well, you may think you understand simple english but by failing to admit you misread it, you basically are proving to the rest of the readers that you don't.
1) he said "I don't" in response to your question about the devil
2) he said "no" in response to your question about G-d.
3) in the second part of the first response, he said the reason - "as one is a result of the other."

There's NO contradiction in those three statements so there's nothing for him to explain.
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Old 09-18-03, 08:12 PM   #789 (permalink)
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ike....chill out...i was just twisting the knife...shesh!!
you have no grounds to assume if i do or do not understand basic english.
i hope you dont use that type of logic on trying to prove or disprove God...."well..you didnt admit this..so you must not know"

lets see...you may think you understand basic english,but by failing to admit you misread it, you basically are proving to the rest of the readers you dont......how stupid is that theory??
i didnt misread anything.
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Old 09-18-03, 08:32 PM   #790 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeepfaned
then you just contradicted yourself with this........

"as one is a result of the other."

how can 1 be if the 1st isnt there to begin with...in your book?
i assume you mean that the devil is a result of God..but if you dont believe in God..then how can the devil be a result of God if he doesnt exist?

you admitted up there that....as one is a result of the other."

i dont understand that
What is there to not understand? In the bible isn't the devil a fallen angel? If I don't believe in god I don't believe in angels therefore I don't believe in a fallen angel. Seems pretty straightforward.
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Old 09-18-03, 08:33 PM   #791 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xyress
Oh, and since you were unable to make the mental leap that the analogy requred, I did not mean to imply that Christians are "bad guys" ... it's just that the Christians and the bad guys in the comic books both don't play by the rules. That was the point in case you missed it.
which rules?

i am not sure i can put into words what i want to say here. hopefully you can read between the lines or let me know what needs to be clarified . . .

the bible is not a science book. it is not a math book. it is not a book that was written to tell you how to build anything in great detail. so it does not speak of evolution, or algebra or mp3 players. you will not find references to DNA/RNA, protoplasm or osmosis. you will not read about photosynthesis or narcolepsy. it is not there.

you will find writings about men who failed and yet God saw beyond their faults and used them in mighty ways. you will find in it a God who was very tolerant of a wishy-washy chosen people. you will find the beginning and the end of time as we know it (which has been debated much now). you will find basic instuctions for living with others, relationships, and even some health advice. still, this is not what the bible is all about.

the bible is about a creator who wanted fellowship with his creation. why did he want it? don't know. he just did. it is about a creator who saw his creation turn from him freely and choose to pick its own path. it is about a creator who provided a way for his creation to return to him despite the huge personal cost. it is a book ultimately about love.

and if one chooses to believe this . . . book, he really must accept the whole. not bits and pieces that work for a given situation. it is all or nothing. there is no in between.

when one accepts the writings, accepts what is written as truth, there is a change. a change in character. a change in perception. a change in how one deals with the world. it is a change that involves patience, gentleness, perseverance . . . faith, hope and love.

the bible has stated for over 2000 years (documented fact) that many will scoff at it. many have tried to quiet it. to outlaw it. promised death to those caught with it. and yet it prevails. some claim it is only for the weak minded. if that is so, there are a great many weak minds in the world today (mine included).

the truth of the bible is not for everyone. in fact, the bible states this more than once. it is a hard truth to accept. it sets a standard that will not bend and cannot be broken. even when it is taken from the hands of an individual, it remains - it is written on the heart of the believer.

the bible offers a hope to the true seeker that nothing else can. it demands that the believer walks a walk and talks a talk that is impossible to do without help. and that help is provided. it requires faith - a faith that is active. a faith that shows it is alive by not only a belief, but an action to reach out to a world that has abandoned its creator.

the bible is. its existence is a fact. it will still be here past the time that you or i are gone. and despite efforts to the contrary it will touch lives like nothing else can. like nothing else ever will.

the Word of God needs no defense from me or anyone else. it will stand against slander, defamation and contextual abuse. it will survive because it has always been.

From John Chapter 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (NIV translation)

the writings concerning jesus tell of one who was 100% man and 100% God (ya know - the trinity thing, which could be another point for debate i suppose) the reader of the bible needs to understand that God chose to become man. to live with us. to have his diaper changed. his knee bruised. to be called names by other kids. it was a choice he made. jesus was the fulfillment of old testament prophecy concerning the promised jewish messiah. he went about teaching things that apparently amazed many - including religious leaders of the day. he spoke with a gentle authority. he was not afraid to call a spade a spade. in the end it cost him his life. before he died, he asked his father in heaven to spare him the agony of the cross - but jesus knew the plan. but he was a man, too. as he hung on a cross (or pole, or "T"), his father, who could not bare the sight of the wrongs (sin) which jesus had to bare for the plan of salvation to work, turned his back on his son. jesus died with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

some say it ended here. the corner stone of christianity says it did not. jesus, we are told, descended into hell itself to defeat that which all men fear - death.

for the believer death is no longer something to fear or even be concerned about. it is a passage. the bible does teach this.

so what rules would you have me play by? the rules of man or the rules of God? if i played by your rules how much easier would it be for you to say "see, he plays by our rules. how can he believe in God?" i choose to stay true to the course i have chosen.

would you really have it any other way?

Ephesians 6

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. (From the NIV translation)

kinda gives me goosebumps proof-reading this.

any questions?
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Old 09-18-03, 08:53 PM   #792 (permalink)
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Hnelson, the rules are simple. Pull a block from the bottom stack it on top. If, on your turn the tower topples everyone yells "JENGA!!"

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Old 09-18-03, 08:55 PM   #793 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jwilker
Hnelson, the rules are simple. Pull a block from the bottom stack it on top. If, on your turn the tower topples everyone yells "JENGA!!"

i like that game - but i usually loose.