Just a general request to everyone to keep things civil, please.
Debate is fine (indeed, it is the cornerstone of any democracy), but personal attacks, name-calling, racism (e.g. "ragheads"), or anything else of that ilk has never been welcome on Aximsite and never will be.
To paraphrase probably the greatest politician of all time, politics is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. Discussing the issues that affect our lives, whilst maintaining our respect for every single person involved in the discussion, is a true indicator of civilized society.
*gets down off soapbox*
Thanks everyone.
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Before people start sreaming for a wall to be built, you need to understand how ineffectual it would be. How much it will cost to build, patrol, and maintain. How would the coastline be protected from people going around it on rafts and boats. How many comparisons to the drug trade will need to be made to prove the futility of it. Sure it might discourage the average berry picker, but the ones that REALLY want to cross (like the criminals and potential terrorists) will just turn to the methods of the drug trade.
So if you want to discourage the illegal immigration, you need to eliminate the jobs and eliminate the social services for them.
the wall issue: Isereal. They can do it we can do it. For centuries countries, nations, bla bla bla, have built walls for the exact purpose as what the US/Mexico boarder would be built for.
Are you telling me that the Greatest country in the world can't build a wall to keep people out???? that right there is a pathetic reason not to build a wall, the US has the capablitiy and the means to build a wall across the boarder, come on we built the hoover damn, the sears tower, the tallest objects(some radio towers out in dakota or something), we built the golden gate bridge when pretty much everyone said that it wasn't possible. We sent people to the moon, more than once, we've split the atom, WE'VE DONE THE IMPOSSIBLE, are you telling me we can't build a wall??????? and are you telling me that we can't send more coast guards into the areas around where the wall meets the water?
We can't stop everyone from coming here, but are you telling me that we can't stop tens of thousands who come here everyday?
We have to stop the bleeding before we can fix the problem here. While we argue about what to do with those in here now, how many are gonna cross the boarder? what if it takes a year? 2 years? 4? how many more are we gonna let in while we debate it? the overwhelming majority of americans "First" want the boarders closed. Politictians on both sides(who would benifite if more came in) know that the american people want the boarders closed, they wont because they have their own agendas, and their agendas supercede what is best for america.
I do agree with you on how to actually deal with those in here now, squeeze them out, take everything away from them(social services) except life saving medical care. PUNISH those who hire them, and I mean harsily, first offense $50,000 2nd offense $200,000 3rd offense minimum 5 years jail time.
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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
the wall issue: Isereal. They can do it we can do it. For centuries countries, nations, bla bla bla, have built walls for the exact purpose as what the US/Mexico boarder would be built for.
Are you telling me that the Greatest country in the world can't build a wall to keep people out???? that right there is a pathetic reason not to build a wall, the US has the capablitiy and the means to build a wall across the boarder, come on we built the hoover damn, the sears tower, the tallest objects(some radio towers out in dakota or something), we built the golden gate bridge when pretty much everyone said that it wasn't possible. We sent people to the moon, more than once, we've split the atom, WE'VE DONE THE IMPOSSIBLE, are you telling me we can't build a wall??????? and are you telling me that we can't send more coast guards into the areas around where the wall meets the water?
We can't stop everyone from coming here, but are you telling me that we can't stop tens of thousands who come here everyday?
We have to stop the bleeding before we can fix the problem here. While we argue about what to do with those in here now, how many are gonna cross the boarder? what if it takes a year? 2 years? 4? how many more are we gonna let in while we debate it? the overwhelming majority of americans "First" want the boarders closed. Politictians on both sides(who would benifite if more came in) know that the american people want the boarders closed, they wont because they have their own agendas, and their agendas supercede what is best for america.
I know where we can find some really cheap labor to build that wall!
The border between US and mexico is 2000 miles long
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The international border between Mexico and the United States runs from San Diego, California, and Tijuana, Baja California, in the west to Matamoros, Tamaulipas, and Brownsville, Texas, in the east. It traverses a variety of terrains, ranging from major urban areas to inhospitable deserts. From the border crossing at El Paso, Texas, and Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, to the east, it follows the course of the Rio Grande (Río Bravo del Norte) to the Gulf of Mexico; from the same binational conurbation westward to the Pacific Ocean, it crosses vast tracts of the Sonoran and Chihuahuan Deserts, the Colorado River Delta, and the northernmost tip of the Baja California Peninsula.
When you are trying to compare it to Israel or Berlin walls...
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Israel's Separation Barrier, dubbed the "Apartheid Wall" or "Berlin Wall" by Palestinians, has increasingly attracted international media attention, largely due to the hard-to-ignore scale of the project. The most obvious historical parallel to the barrier is the Berlin Wall, which was 96 miles long (155 kilometers). Israel's barrier, still under construction, is expected to reach at least 403 miles in length (650 kilometers). The average height of the Berlin Wall was 11.8 feet (3.6 metres), compared with the maximum* current height of Israel's Wall -- 25 feet (8 metres). [*it is not clear whether the shorter fence sections, about 6 meters in height, are first or final stages in Israel's construction of the barrier.]
Israel's barrier is therefore planned to be four times as long and in places twice as high as the Berlin Wall.
The scale is rediculous in comparison... the cost of construction is estimated at 8 billion. And all it will take to beat it is a rope or pole ladder out in the desert. It will cause a new industry to be built with curriers dropping off and picking up a specific spots in the desert. Drug runners had tunnels dug across the border.
I'm sure we can build it... I'm just not certain that it will do much good.
In Florida, we have the Coast Guard intercepting Cubans fleeing from Cuba... coming over in converted 1970 Chevy pickups... and they still get in.
Would it stop some or many of them? Sure, it should. But not enough to justify the expense of the wall and the cost of the manpower to patrol it, nor the cost to repair it from explosives that would be used to open a section, or the tunnels that would be dug under it.
Personally, I think it would be cool, just not remarkably effective. It might make people feel better,like the ort screenings where they prevent you from taking nail clippers on board... as if someone meaning business would be relying on nail clippers.
Then we'd have to build a longer wall at the Canadian border to prevent those damn beavers from chewing on our trees.
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Must I remind people about the great wall of china? Think of the tourisim this wall could generate a few hundred years from now!
Build, it will slow them down since congress needs the time apparently.
We should build one on the northern border to keep those lousy Canadians out. I mean, some of them even speak French! Besides, they won't work cheap and won't legalize drugs! Oh, now, under US pressure, Mexico apparently won't either.
How come the big Conservative (GET THE GOVERNMENT OFF OUR BACKS) freedom lovers can't seem to let adults decide if they want to do some drugs? Oh, that's not fair, some of them, the honest ones like Buckley, actually do mean what they say.
Besides, if all the working class is hopped up on drugs, productivity will go down.
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"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." -- John Quincy Adams
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Not only is the Texas/Mexico border LONG, but it goes through some very, very rough country that can turn nasty in an instant! Building a wall through that area in the summer (temperatures 110+), or in any kind of bad weather would be a heck of a job...sudden floods when it rains upstream. The Rio Grande River is NOT a nice river, despite all of the dams the Army Corps of Engineers have put on it and it's nautral (quicksand etc.) defenses.
Anyway, the mojados would still come and climb the wall. Friends, you ain't got no idea of how poor and hungry these people are in some of the remote areas! Your garbage would feed a family of 5! They ain't afraid of work and would love to come as open immigrants and work any jobs to get their kids into schools (there you pay) and better themselves.
OK, climbing off my soapbox now!
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Only one more comment before I go (too easy to really get up on my high horse on this topic)...let's face it, the only thing the politicians are good at is lining their own pockets!
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"An idiot with a computer is a faster, better idiot"
Rich Julius
Only one more comment before I go (too easy to really get up on my high horse on this topic)...let's face it, the only thing the politicians are good at is lining their own pockets!
Are you on a soapbox or a horse?
I disagree. The politicians are better at lining the pockets of the folks that give them big bucks. Too often that equates to giving money to folks that already have plenty.
You just don't get it... Somebody will make money from any policy that happens.... except for policies that tax companies out of competition, in which case foreign companies will make the money.
If there is a new drive for US oil, the GWB and his "oil cronies" will make more money.
If the drive is for Ethanol based fuels, that big farmers, distilleries, and land owners will make money.
If the drive is for nuclear power, then the power companies will make the money.
etc.
Politics is just a game of WHO gets to get rich from any given deal... and everyone wants to get rich. (except for the communist/socialist groups that want everyone to be poor)
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Let's see how much play this gets... especially as it seems to be getting covered up already.
I guess a democrat with a drinking problem isn't news... well at least not a Kennedy.
Quote:
KENNEDY CAR CRASH COVER-UP?
Thu May 04 2006 17:12:05 ET
Police labor union officials asked acting Chief Christopher McGaffin this afternoon to allow a Capitol Police officer to complete his investigation into an early-morning car crash involving Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-R.I.), son of Sen. Ted Kennedy.
ROLL CALL reports: According to a letter sent by Officer Greg Baird, acting chairman of the USCP FOP, the wreck took place at approximately 2:45 a.m. Thursday when Kennedy's car, operating with its running lights turned off, narrowly missed colliding with a Capitol Police cruiser and smashed into a security barricade at First and C streets Southeast.
“The driver exited the vehicle and he was observed to be staggering,” Baird’s letter states. Officers approached the driver, who “declared to them he was a Congressman and was late to a vote. The House had adjourned nearly three hours before this incident. It was Congressman Patrick J. Kennedy from Rhode Island.”
Baird wrote that Capitol Police Patrol Division units, who are trained in driving under the influence cases, were not allowed to perform basic field sobriety tests on the Congressman. Instead, two sergeants, who also responded to the accident, proceeded to confer with the Capitol Police watch commander on duty and then “ordered all of the Patrol Division Units to leave the scene and that they were taking over.”
A source tells the DRUDGE REPORT: "It was apparent that the driver was intoxicated (stumbling) and claimed he was in a hurry to make a vote.
"When it became apparent who it was, instead of processing a normal DWI, the watch commander had the Patrol units clear the scene. The commander allowed other building officials drive Kennedy home."
This morning's incident comes just over two weeks after Kennedy was involved in a car accident in Rhode Island.
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." -- John Quincy Adams
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Lets get this straight, the President doesn't approve budgets, he doesn't determine what gets spent (beyond the stuff inside the White House). Congress makes the budgets, Congress determines spending, Congress decides to spend 14 million on bridge in Alaska that services 6 families.
The President can veto the bill and then it goes back to Congress which then gets to vote to approve it regardless of the President's opinion.
You can blame GWB for making the spending easier for Congress, but getting in Congress's way, would just make them more obstinate when it comes to spending the GWB wants to have approved. If GWB was more popular then he copuld stand up in a press meeting and talk about how Congress is doing this or that and get public opinion to sway Congress... but for the most part, unless it is about Iraq, GWB has little pull now.
Lay the blame to those that have earned it... not just on the President.
May 4, 2006
Senate Backs Spending Bill, Ignoring Veto Threat
By CARL HULSE and DAVID STOUT
WASHINGTON, May 4 — The Senate approved a $109 billion spending bill today to pay for the Iraq war and Gulf Coast recovery, ignoring a veto threat from President Bush and setting the stage for bitter negotiations with the House.
The Senate's 78-to-20 approval of the bill at a level far in excess of the president's request put the Senate at odds with the House, where the Republican leadership has taken an increasingly hard line against add-ons in the measure.
"The House will not take up an emergency supplemental spending bill for Katrina and the war in Iraq that spends $1 more than what the president asked for," Representative John A. Boehner, the House majority leader, told reporters today. "Period."
But Senator Thad Cochran, Republican of Mississippi and chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, said he hoped there would be room for some negotiations with both the House and the White House.
"I view it as a challenge always to work out a bill in conference with the House," he said. "We know we are going to have to make compromises, but it is hard to predict right now exactly what those might be or what the bottom level of the bill might be."
The 20 senators who voted against the measure are all Republicans. Thirty-four Republicans voted for it. Although the 78 "yes" votes would be 11 more than needed to override a veto, it is probably too soon to speculate on a showdown between the White House and Senate. First, there will be a big showdown between the Senate and House.
Even as the president renewed his veto warning on Wednesday, senators added special requests to the bill, ratcheting up its cost to $109 billion, well over Mr. Bush's ceiling of $92.2 billion for the war and hurricane recovery, with an additional $2.3 billion to prepare for a flu pandemic.
Mr. Bush, who has not vetoed any bill, accused "some here in Washington with trying to load up that bill with unnecessary spending."
"The Congress needs to hear me loud and clear," Mr. Bush said in a speech to the American Council of Engineering Companies. "If they spend more than $92.2 billion plus pandemic flu emergency funds, I will veto this bill."
Mr. Bush also made his case for the economic benefits of tax cuts as Congressional negotiators closed in on a $70 billion deal to extend lower tax rates on investments until 2010 while taking steps to shield some taxpayers from the effects of the alternative minimum tax.
The Senate did not seem deterred by the veto threat, adding $289 million at the request of Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, to compensate emergency workers who might be injured by experimental flu vaccines.
That action followed approval of an extra $1.6 billion for levees in Louisiana, $30 million for Gulf Coast election assistance and $30 million for forest projects.
Senate conservatives tried, but failed, to strip the measure of spending that they argued was unnecessary and did not qualify for treatment as an emergency. The critics were able to eliminate just a $15 million seafood-promotion campaign, leaving a significant gap among the overall spending targets of the Senate, Mr. Bush and House Republicans, who this year approved a $91.9 billion emergency bill.
This week, House Republican leaders accused the Senate of embarking on a "huge spending spree" and backed Mr. Bush in his veto threat, raising the likelihood that negotiations on a final measure would be tough.
...
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this is rough terrain okay. and they didn't have tractors or buildozers or whatever, they did it with sweat and blood, oh and the weather, not blistering hot but bone chillingly cold(high winds + heavy snow) any sane person would rather build a wall in hot weather than cold(with snow). oh and the length: 3,946 miles. built during the 14th century.
by the way the us/mexico boarder is only about 1,400 miles.
they built this wall for defensive purposes, and you know what IT WORKED.
We need to build a wall for "DEFENSIVE" purposes, and you know what IT WILL WORK. we wont keep everyone out but we will stop the majority of the people.
lets say that only 10-15% make it over with the wall in place, what you would rather have
20 million over the next couple of years? or 2million? that is a HUGE difference.
@1234com: this is the water fountain, isn't it? I like these guys(even though they are missinformed) It might get heated sometimes but I still like them at the end of the day.
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