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Old 05-30-06, 10:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Who Killed The Electric Car

http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com

Looks like it could be interesting.
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Old 05-30-06, 12:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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800 pounds of lead and acid in each commuter car killed it. Maybe supercapacitors will help it to live again. Or the upcoming new Lithium-ion technology. Who knows? What I would like to see is an electric car that can pick up energy from the transformers under the road at stoplights (they are used as sensors so that the stoplight computer can tell when there is a car waiting).
Honestly, the video condemns auto manufacturers and big oil and its cronies, but the truth is, market pressure does it. People don't care as much about the environment as they do about how powerful their cars are. Now that gasoline is perceived as being permanently above $2 per gallon, attitudes may change a bit. Maybe enough to create enough market pressure to create production-level demand and warrant large production runs. Personally, if there was a practical electric on the market, I would probably own one. I only commute about 25 miles a day. Fill it up at home, never have to visit the pumps. Much more practical.
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Old 05-30-06, 12:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Its simple battery technology killed the electric car.

I think that what car companies really need to look at is Plug-in Hybrid cars. You get the best of both worlds.
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Old 05-30-06, 12:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Now let's see... where is the electricity going to come from... I know... we can burn more dirty coal!!!
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Old 05-30-06, 01:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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When I was living in the USA nearly 40 years ago I saw many independent reports from General Electric, General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Westinghouse and several others. They were all doing in depth research to try to find an practical alternative to the Lead Acid battery, which as PocketBrain and Kenban say, is too heavy and has insufficient capacity to come anywhere close to a petrol or diesel engined car.

They all got nowhere. The only possible developements were Silver Zinc which had a much better power to weight ratio but was simply far too expensive or another form of cell which used liquid sodium as an electrolye which was far too dangerous.

True, the Lithium-Ion cell had not been invented then but, if you think of th cost of your Axim battery, would be way too expensive to be even considered for a high power application like a car.

I agree with Kenban the hybrid cars are attractive and will go some way to reducing the demand for oil, but not much.

Fuel cells run on hydrogen which requires a great deal of electric power to produce it and since it cannot be liquified, except at temperatures approaching absolute zero, it can only be stored inefficiently under high pressure in large and very heavy gas cylinders. It is also potentially explosive when mixed with oxygen or air and so is also dangerous. Fuel cell cars produced to date are heavy, extremely expensive and have a very limited range. Doubtless the technology wil improve with futher research but I doubt if they will ever be serious competitors to internal compustion engines.

My bet is fuel produced from organic sources.
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Old 05-30-06, 01:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I vote for ethanol hybrids w/ no batteries.

a large capacitor(s) can be used to recover power for purposes of efficiency. and changes in regulations allowing lighter cars
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Last edited by radimus; 05-30-06 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 05-30-06, 01:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by radimus
I vote for ethanol hybrids w/ no batteries.

a large capacitor(s) can be used to recover power for purposes of efficiency. and changes in regulations allowing lighter cars
I vote for matter/antimatter fusion drives. More bang for the buck!

-CB :approve:
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Old 05-30-06, 01:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davrol
Fuel cells run on hydrogen which requires a great deal of electric power to produce it and since it cannot be liquified, except at temperatures approaching absolute zero, it can only be stored inefficiently under high pressure in large and very heavy gas cylinders. It is also potentially explosive when mixed with oxygen or air and so is also dangerous. Fuel cell cars produced to date are heavy, extremely expensive and have a very limited range. Doubtless the technology wil improve with futher research but I doubt if they will ever be serious competitors to internal compustion engines.

My bet is fuel produced from organic sources.

There is also some ideas (including patents) that are using hydroelectric, solar, and wind power to generate hydrogen.

there has to be a quick refueling method. The "citycar" concept will not fly with the majority.

The real issue is to provide some sort of renewable energy source that can be used in a portable application (as a passenger car).
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Old 05-30-06, 01:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It is all about greed and who's going to get richer faster. If I could walk everywhere I have to go I would. Just think about it. How much money do you give in taxes, hidden fees and profit to organisation a year just to drive a car.

License, gas, gas taxes, plate, insurance, car payment, car loan interest, maintenance etc... During the ownership you pollute air, field, create waste and unbalance the environment....

Don't get me wrong I like nice fast cars but we are too over the edge with what we want and get compare to what is really needed. Do you really think that we can continue to put that kind of stress on earth forever? Something got to give somewhere and I hope that we will be ready when it happens. My2¢
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Old 05-30-06, 01:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by radimus
I vote for ethanol hybrids w/ no batteries.

a large capacitor(s) can be used to recover power for purposes of efficiency. and changes in regulations allowing lighter cars
in practice it sounds good but the energy input required to make ethanol is much greater than the amount of energy derived from burning ethanol.
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Old 05-30-06, 02:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ericcumbee
in practice it sounds good but the energy input required to make ethanol is much greater than the amount of energy derived from burning ethanol.
Isn't that the same for any modern manufactured fuel?
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Old 05-30-06, 03:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CodeBubba
I vote for matter/antimatter fusion drives. More bang for the buck!

-CB :approve:
LMAO!!!!
I was thinking the same thing....

On another note... Do you really want to be driving a small electric car and get in an accident with a Chevy Suburban?
I guess if my ashes will help replenish the earth it's not all bad... right?
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Old 05-30-06, 03:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ericcumbee
in practice it sounds good but the energy input required to make ethanol is much greater than the amount of energy derived from burning ethanol.

The issue is, is one form of energy easier to produce or reproduce than another. Is there a limited supply of one or another.


There is effectively an unlimited supply of hydrogen in the ocean, and we can grow an unlimited or renewable about of the other.

The only real issue is if the technology is available to make effective use of it.


For example, there is a project under development to use solar and wind power to generate hydrogen... both are free sources of energy, the costs are associated to the cost and upkeep of the equipment, staff cost, distribution, etc. Very similar to any other source of fuel.
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Old 05-30-06, 03:53 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rogue9
LMAO!!!!
I was thinking the same thing....

On another note... Do you really want to be driving a small electric car and get in an accident with a Chevy Suburban?
I guess if my ashes will help replenish the earth it's not all bad... right?

The insurance market will limit that. Heavy vehicles will have a higher premium than lighter ones.

Would there be any difference between a semi or rock hauler vs. a surburan?

Also 2 electric cars that hit each other are safer than 2 surburans that hit each other... speed times mass.
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Old 05-30-06, 04:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by N Gabish
Now let's see... where is the electricity going to come from... I know... we can burn more dirty coal!!!
Still >4x cleaner than gasoline. I did some scratch calculations, and it is in fact very practical, since your monthly payment would be about the same amount more than that for a comparable ICE car as the savings from increased fuel economy. I wonder how reduced maintenance costs and additional initial savings from economies of scale (assuming a larger market) would figure in? Also, read deeper in some of the resources they have, you will find that a plugged-in car can also act as energy storage/buffer on the power grid. A very interesting idea.
Although, I do agree that coal power is dirty. Nuclear is, in fact, cleaner and safer. And releases far less radioactive material. That sounds counter-intuitive, but there is a lot of unstable Phosporous and even Uranium in coal.

hey ericcumbee... you have Excel on the desktop?
Easy to decode:
=CHAR(BIN2DEC(A1))
=CHAR(BIN2DEC(A2))
...
etc.
1000111 1001001 1000111 1001111
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