I'm sorry I'm back on this thread...
saminegm, as a German, do you really think we should deal now, in this thread, with the massacres of the past? really?
A soldier is the last noble proffesion, and although when at war horrible things can happen, a true soldier stays noble. A true sodier must defeat his enemy, by hate , by power, by determination, but he will forever respect his enemy. Even SS sodiers , as brainwashed and mislead they were, performed acts of heroism during WWII, for their country, for their people. Even then there were true soldiers and this is the essence of an expresion "walk in the Valley of Death".
I know you can never understand this, and I hope it stays this way, for your sake.
Good day.
I'm sorry I'm back on this thread...
saminegm, as a German, do you really think we should deal now, in this thread, with the massacres of the past? really?
A soldier is the last noble proffesion, and although when at war horrible things can happen, a true soldier stays noble. A true sodier must defeat his enemy, by hate , by power, by determination, but he will forever respect his enemy. Even SS sodiers , as brainwashed and mislead they were, performed acts of heroism during WWII, for their country, for their people. Even then there were true soldiers and this is the essence of an expresion "walk in the Valley of Death".
I know you can never understand this, and I hope it stays this way, for your sake.
Good day.
Indeed no one can defend the actions of SS "soldiers" who killed people out of racism, who defended a nation that killed 6 Million (!!!) innocent jewish people, who made unspeakable experiments with children, who committed the worst crimes in history of mankind... No, I cannot defend them.
Sorry... I've been looking back and can't seem to find any threads started by you that are critical of the republican party.. although I can find many that are critical of the left... and all of the threads you seem to start seem to take the Bush line on foreign policy... Not that I object to that it's just that there is a clear line of bias in the topics that you choose to start threads about. It would seem that the Red Cross report on X-ray.. Fraud by republicans... holding your country to the values of international law and freedom it promotes throughout the world, conflicts of interest in your government, the erosian of Human rights etc are seen as either being newsworthy or topics worthy of discussion..
As long as polictical threads are legal on aximsite then keep going if you really want, but I'd hate it if you just used it as an excuse for you to push an agenda... (which I am sure you'd never do )
And what is my agenda? Doesn't having an agenda mean that I am expecting some type of ROI?
BTW, here is Abu Gharib that came out today... which is somewhat applicable to the context of this thread.
Military jury deliberating case of dog handler charged with Abu Ghraib abuse
an Associated Press report 05/31/06
FORT MEADE, Md. - A military jury resumed deliberations Wednesday in the court-martial of an Army dog handler portrayed by prosecutors as part of a sadistic conspiracy and by defense lawyers as a victim of the chaos and confusion at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
Sgt. Santos A. Cardona, accused of using his military dog to terrorize detainees for his own amusement, was a good soldier who tried to meet the urgent but muddled demands of inept senior officers, said his civilian attorney, Harvey J. Volzer.
"This man did absolutely nothing wrong," Volzer said in his closing argument Tuesday.
Maj. Christopher Graveline, the lead prosecutor, discounted the defense theory that Cardona and other military police soldiers felt obliged to take orders from military intelligence workers outside their chain of command.
"This is not about confusion and it's not about military intelligence. They were doing their own thing for their own entertainment," Graveline said.
Cardona, 32, of Fullerton, Calif., is accused of making his dog bite one prisoner and harass another to amuse himself and other soldiers already convicted of abuses at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 and early 2004. The government also alleges he competed with another dog handler to frighten detainees into soiling themselves.
The military policeman, who was based at Fort Bragg, N.C., is charged with aggravated assault, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, conspiracy to maltreat detainees and lying to investigators. He faces up to 16 1/2 years in prison if convicted on all counts.
During Cardona's trial, a military police reservist who ran the prison in summer 2003 testified that a visiting general had urged guards and interrogators to use dogs "as much as possible" with detainees.
The statement by Lt. Col. Jerry Phillabaum differed from Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller's testimony earlier in the court-martial that he encouraged the use of dogs only for custody and control of detainees.
Ten low-ranking soldiers, including fellow dog-handler Sgt. Michael Smith, have been convicted in the Abu Ghraib scandal, in which detainees were abused and photographed in painful or sexually humiliating positions. Smith was sentenced to 179 days in prison.
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He did. He was part of a war which was against international law.
He did not participate in torturing. That's all the good news? Be proud, America, you have soldiers not torturing too.
I will never understand why it should be a noble proffession to get paid to kill people. I always thought a doctor, who is paid to heal people, has a noble proffession...
I must agree in this one with saminegm. The United States had no real reason to go to Irak to kill innocent people, they claimed weapons of mass destruction... where are they? Now it would be nice to know who is gaining the profit of their oil. Or, as we know, Bush is gaining lots of money by owning part of Halliburton (as a "coincidence" it happens that Halliburton is in charge of most of the reconstruction of Irak!!).
But hey, they are still torturing innocent people for their economy´s sake, so there´s nothing we can do about it.
What I agree with the others is that USA wants, and should, go away from Irak. So this is why, at this stage, they should do whatever they can to restore order and leave Irak to try and continue with their lives.
ps. "when you deal with animals you acquire the animal instinct" ... isn´t this a bit too harsh?
Not meant to be funny. The fact is that there are evil people in all walks of life, all professions, all countries, all races, all religions.
What I find absolutlely appalling about you is your insistence to lump all Americans under one catagory based upon the actions of some. Go climb back under your rock.
Not meant to be funny. The fact is that there are evil people in all walks of life, all professions, all countries, all races, all religions.
What I find absolutlely appalling about you is your insistence to lump all Americans under one catagory based upon the actions of some. Go climb back under your rock.
Go climb back under your rock?
Don't you think the ape descendends are mostly found where primates are killing women and children kneeling in front of them, let's say the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment of the US Marines?
And no, I dont put all Americans under one category. Apparently you think, you are america. You are not. There are people which fight for human rights in the states, which were against this war, people, that did not elect this administration.
It's you who I "lump under one catagory based upon the actions of some" because you support this war. Thats it.
Painting the actions of a few deviants as being representative of an entire class of people is a dangerous thing. I will not give specific examples, since I do not want to be misquoted, but suffice it to say that saminegm's comment is racist in nature (since Marines are not a race) and is definately inflamatory.
The alleged actions of these particular men are tantamount to being war crimes. IF they are found to be guilty, then they should suffer the consequences, just like any other criminal.
...
What I agree with the others is that USA wants, and should, go away from Irak. So this is why, at this stage, they should do whatever they can to restore order and leave Irak to try and continue with their lives.
You are right. The problem is, the whole war has risen more Terrorists than we had before. The US cant simply leave. They have - as you said - restore order. But apparently this administration is better in killing then in governing.
Painting the actions of a few deviants as being representative of an entire class of people is a dangerous thing. I will not give specific examples, since I do not want to be misquoted, but suffice it to say that saminegm's comment is racist in nature (since Marines are not a race) and is definately inflamatory.
The alleged actions of these particular men are tantamount to being war crimes. IF they are found to be guilty, then they should suffer the consequences, just like any other criminal.
Of course, Haditha, is a single incident. Of course, Abu Ghureib is a single incident. Of course, Guantanamo is a single incident...
Arguing this way you could say that the killing of 6 Million jewish people in Germany was just "the actions of a few deviants". Wake up! This War is against international law.
YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTIONS DONE IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
And ... I am no racist at all... that is ridiculous.
okay . . . it has been a LONG time since i have posted in this type of a thread, but these words were interesting:
"YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTIONS DONE IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA."
now i was not there when the insurgent groups captured and then beheaded those they had kidnapped, but i feel very safe in assuming that words to this effect were some of the last they heard before feeling the cold steel of a sword strike the back of their neck.
interesting that these same words should come from someone whose nation is free because of america and that same nation is still protected by america in the NATO alliance. should i assume that you agree with the actions taken by these insurgents? i probably shouldn't . . . huh?
thanks to those who have previously posted for protecting this nation by serving in wars past and present. freedom isn't free . . .
have a good one! :approve:
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Harold Nelson, USN, ETC(SS), retired
"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." - Horace Mann :approve:
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away" - George Carlin
I think America DID find and get rid of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq: Sadaam and his two sons!
It always amazes me that those who enjoy living in free countries are also the ones bemoaning all wars as morally wrong. I wonder if the people suffering in Sudan under an EVIL government would feel that way if someone stepped in and attempted to give them the liberty so many of us enjoy.
I don't like war anymore than most human beings do. But I hate something even more: TYRANNY!
I am thankful as an American to live in a country where 300 million people can enjoy freedom. I am incredibly thankful for those who fought in our nation's wars for me to have those freedoms. I am ALSO thankful that in America, even soldiers are not above the law. If these Marines committed these crimes, they will be punished. But how many countries commit heinous acts against their own citizens and then forbid the press to report them--NOT IN AMERICA!!!
Our deeds only look worse than others because we owe up to them instead of hiding everything under the carpet.
Whether you like it or not, many people around the world still look to America as the place they wish they could live (e.g. look at our immigration problem). For all its faults, I would much rather live here than anywhere else!
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