If religion comes first for muslims why do they disobey the primary rule of any religion ? "thou shall not kill" Christians are guilty also. Terrorist kill innocent people all the time. Suicide bombers have no regard for any1. At least the US armed forces are putting forth some type of effort not to harm civilians but the terroist are not. Religion means nothing its just an excuse to do whatever you say is right to try and control people who cant think for themselves.
If religion comes first for muslims why do they disobey the primary rule of any religion ? "thou shall not kill" Christians are guilty also. Terrorist kill innocent people all the time. Suicide bombers have no regard for any1. At least the US armed forces are putting forth some type of effort not to harm civilians but the terroist are not. Religion means nothing its just an excuse to do whatever you say is right to try and control people who cant think for themselves.
way to go... as broad generalisations go you're nearly as broad as you can get.
The percentage of muslims who are terrorists is a lot smaller than the percentage of US soldiers that have killed civilians. That's nothing against the US armed forces by the way it's just the fact that there are a lot less of them.
If you don't like religion then fine, but the link you're trying to make doesn't work.
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"(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?
(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.
(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.
"
and
"(f) Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.
"
And before you say See we invaded Iraq and caused this:
"
(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.
"
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Actually Abbie Hoffman was my Hero for a while and In High school speach class I gave speaches on how to make Smoke bombs and explosives from the instructions in his "Steal This Book" book. We would take them to school and demonstrate them on the Baseball field before the whole class. Then the National guard came in and locked down Kent (about 5 miles away). Some people got killed and that was the end of that.
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I thought these threads were pretty pointless on a board such as this but I now find myself reading all the posts (but never the links). You can really get an insight into whether people are left, right or middle of the road and who just likes to "stir the pot". It is interesting that those with high post counts are the most vocal. I am reassured that some of my favourite posters have the most balanced views.
The thing that popped into my mind while I was reading was the song from a few years back by "Dana Lyons" which seems to set the mood. Those who know it will know it.
If religion comes first for muslims why do they disobey the primary rule of any religion ? "thou shall not kill" Christians are guilty also. Terrorist kill innocent people all the time. Suicide bombers have no regard for any1. At least the US armed forces are putting forth some type of effort not to harm civilians but the terroist are not. Religion means nothing its just an excuse to do whatever you say is right to try and control people who cant think for themselves.
Historically, killing and religion go together like fries and ketchup.
A gross generalization on a personal level, but on a global and historical scale the evidence is there.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but most religions do not teach tolerance of people who belong to other religions. It's often covert "they're wrong, this is the true and correct way" and "you should be spreading the word and bringing others into the fold", but it's often much worse too.
To pre-emtptively defend myself - I'm not suggesting that religion is evil or we should have no religion. Religion has done a lot of good for a lot of people. I just don't feel that there is a consistent message of tolerance. I'm willing to accept that I could be wrong, but that's my impression.
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I'd like to add some information that might temper your generalizations a bit. I am not generally a fan of religion and am not a member of any organized religion but consider the following regarding Buddhism:
"In all of Buddhist history, there has never been a holy war. Surely Buddhist kings have waged war against one another, and they may even have claimed to be doing so for the benefit of humankind or the Buddhist religion, but they could not quote any saying of the Buddha to support them. The Buddha was quite clear in his renunciation of violence: "Victory creates hatred. Defeat creates suffering. The wise ones desire neither victory nor defeat... Anger creates anger... He who kills will be killed. He who wins will be defeated... Revenge can only be overcome by abandoning revenge... The wise seek neither victory nor defeat."
and further on:
"Tibetans provide an excellent example of a Buddhist approach to conflict. However violent and ruthless the Chinese aggressors have been to this country, His Holiness the Dalai Lama has never said a harmful word against them. He always asks the Tibetans to refrain from armed struggle and to meditate on what they did in the past that might have caused them so much suffering."
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." -- John Quincy Adams
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And it was interesting to note that the canadian suspects arrived in court today...
Well done Canada
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Historically, killing and religion go together like fries and ketchup.
A gross generalization on a personal level, but on a global and historical scale the evidence is there.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but most religions do not teach tolerance of people who belong to other religions. It's often covert "they're wrong, this is the true and correct way" and "you should be spreading the word and bringing others into the fold", but it's often much worse too.
To pre-emtptively defend myself - I'm not suggesting that religion is evil or we should have no religion. Religion has done a lot of good for a lot of people. I just don't feel that there is a consistent message of tolerance. I'm willing to accept that I could be wrong, but that's my impression.
historically you say?
please check the history if islam. you will find no implied conversions at all. also muslims have repeatedly given a safe place of residence to other religions esp. jews and christians. others haven't. (take the spanish in the 1600's or the israeli zionists, present day)
islam not only values human life but also advocates that you gaurd plants and animals during war. there are a lot of other rules concerning "jihad" which extends beyond plain old fighting and war.
this is in stark conrast to, for example, how the soviets raped german women after ww2 and a second incident concerning americans. in the vietnam war a few american soldiers were killed in a bomb blast. (as you do, in a war). an american commander surrounded a nearby village which was full of women and children, as most of the able men had gone to fight, and massacred them all.
the commander was first given a life sentence, which was revoked to indefinite house arrest. after 5 days they let him go as a free man. brilliant.
all in all, i feel that the current state of the world s going to be terrible for us, the next generation, (16 years old) as a lot of misunderstanding has been sown in between, mainly christians and muslims, the largest identitities. i know many christians and muslims and i can see how theese diffrences could result in undesirable circumstances. honestly, i've tried to exercise control over myself to best handle the situation, and it helps that all my friends are intellectual people. my situation is ok, but i fear others may run into difficulties. being of a differenr race, different country, and different religion really can set you back, but as i said before, i found some ood open-minded friends.:) so these are the thought of a 16 year old to, what i assume are just below middle-aged (probably) men. final plea: dont believe stuff on media, most of it is BS, i've lived in 4 different countries, and the stories hardly ever match.
Just to clarify - when I said that killing and religion go together, what I meant was that there has consistently been killing in the name of religion.
I don't mean that all religious people kill, or that all religions have been guilty of it, just that there was always killing in the name of religion. I should maybe have made that clearer.
Thanks both for the posts though. I'm no expect and it's interesting stuff.
Legoman, I assume that you're referring to My Lai, although there were other similar incidents. I think the terms that you've cited are incorrect, but you may be referring to one of the other massacres. Not that it makes it any better, but descriptions are always good when it comes to supposed factual events :)
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It wasn't a dig at the US.... it was that the poster i was replying too was trying to equate muslims to terrorists... and then trying to stretch the point to saying that all religions were just as bad. He used the comparison with US troops to justify his argument when it just wasn't valid. Sorry if you missed the point.
The fact that someone is willing to die no matter what and where is pretty scary to me. You just fight a lost cause. This is the equivalent of japanese combat fighters willing to bring down their plane to the target...brainwashed to do whatever is ordered is a pretty evil concept IMO.
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