like i said i am not exactly going to losse sleep over a couple TERRORISTs that finally did the right thing.
The point being made, eric, is that the detainees have not been found guilty of any crime, nor have they been proven a terrorist. When you combine that with the illegality of Quantanamo Bay under international law, the argument that perhaps you should lose sleep over it becomes quite compelling.
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So this is the same international rule of law that says the United States can not act in a premptive manner in reguards to national security. Or the International rule of law that says israel can not build a wall to protect its own people from homicide bombings. so you will have to forgive me if my opinion of the International Rule of Law isnt as sparkling as some other members.
Well wait a second. Surely the very FIRST objective should be to ensure that they are given justice the fair American way right?
Even if you don't agree with the International rulings.
You guys are fighting for truth, freedom and justice right?
EDIT: And don't think that I'm suggesting that these guys should all be set free either. The world does not have to be this black and white "You're with the US or you hate the US" scene.
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Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it.
Don't get me wrong, that was a gross atrocity. Indefensible.
But the dead Iraqi civilians hardly had a fair trial either did they (if we're going to play that game). Neither did all those that died on 9/11. And we could keep going backwards if we want to, since we all know that 9/11 wasn't the first related event.
I just think that labelling them all terrorists and saying they deserve death is perhaps a little hypocritical, that's all. But maybe it's just me.
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Always read stuff that will make you look good if you die in the middle of it.
Wow !!! Some of the posters here are way to the "right" of Ghengis Khan and seem quite happy to be judge, jury and executioner based on what they have been fed by the media. I may be cynical but I have difficulty taking published reports at face value.
What people are generally expressing are their personal values (me included) and these are generally not influenced by someone elses values or even what they read in published reports.
For what it's worth my own views are based on morals rather than religion. I am at best an agnostic and possibly an atheist.
I don't think people should be detained without a trial.
Guilty people should be punished.
Government sanctioned killing is wrong.
Terrorism is definitely wrong.
Sometimes war is necessary.
Bad things happen in war.
Well that's me in a nutshell. Some will agree and some will disagree (based on personal values).
I used to think that these threads were rubbish but after reading a few I find them quite stimulating and thought provoking especially now that my Activesync no longer works.
It's amazing how we all were for the war and now even the media are against it
How long before Vietnam repeat itself.
And you see marines Heli flying the hell out of the green zone
Or is it because the media are starting to be against it and showing us the real face of war
And we are so “influence able” any way any death is a sad thing
Graham2456
“Sometimes war is necessary.”
Where did you get this?
ALL WAR are WRONG and UNECESSARY
What will you do if you have been snatched from you country to a concentration camp and held there for years with no idea when or if you will get out.
Won’t you seek revenge if one day you get out and will be the meaning of your live?
There's no WAY OUT ( thank's BUSH)
lose lose situation
let's just keep them for life that's the only solution
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I think we could give all these guys Axim51Vs with lots 2003se software and throw in overseas customer support from Burma with support people that barely speak Farsi and Pashtun...?
That would keep'em very busy trying to get all this crap to work smoothly or even more of them would commit suicide.
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It's amazing how we all were for the war and now even the media are against it
How long before Vietnam repeat itself.
And you see marines Heli flying the hell out of the green zone
Or is it because the media are starting to be against it and showing us the real face of war
And we are so “influence able” any way any death is a sad thing
Graham2456
“Sometimes war is necessary.”
Where did you get this?
ALL WAR are WRONG and UNECESSARY
What will you do if you have been snatched from you country to a concentration camp and held there for years with no idea when or if you will get out.
Won’t you seek revenge if one day you get out and will be the meaning of your live?
There's no WAY OUT ( thank's BUSH)
lose lose situation
let's just keep them for life that's the only solution
You've got to calm down, I read your post and I can feel your passion.
As I said in my post we are all only voicing our own views (I included mine). They are not necessarily right or wrong but they are our own. I can happily accept that others will have views completely different to my own but that does not make them a bad person.
Regarding my previous post, perhaps I should have said wars are "inevitable" rather than "necessary".
Mankind have resorted to wars to resolve differences since before recorded history.
It's amazing how we all were for the war and now even the media are against it
How long before Vietnam repeat itself.
And you see marines Heli flying the hell out of the green zone
Or is it because the media are starting to be against it and showing us the real face of war
And we are so “influence able” any way any death is a sad thing
Graham2456
“Sometimes war is necessary.”
Where did you get this?
ALL WAR are WRONG and UNECESSARY
What will you do if you have been snatched from you country to a concentration camp and held there for years with no idea when or if you will get out.
Won’t you seek revenge if one day you get out and will be the meaning of your live?
There's no WAY OUT ( thanks BUSH)
lose lose situation
let's just keep them for life that's the only solution
You must be kidding. "Now even the media is against it." The main stream media for the most part has always been against it. The parallel to the Vietnam war is semi accurate. The media, through their constant denigration of the military and the work that our boys were doing there, was a major reason for our pulling out before mission was accomplished.
I was there. The pulling out that was condoned by the media resulted in a blood bath that stretched from Vietnam to Cambodia. Remember Pol Pot and the killing fields, the re-education camps etc. These are the kind of things that happen when pacifists sway public opinion away from finishing the job that was started.
I will never be for getting into a war no matter what the reason unless the intention is to win. The military is really good at breaking things and killing people. If you let them run it they will get it done. If you let the politicians run it, you get Vietnam.
Unless you believe that it is better for you, your friends and your relatives to be dead or enslaved along with the rest of your countrymen, all wars are not evil. When you have people that believe that killing people people in the name of Allah is the holiest thing to do, the the best defense is a good offense.
I really don't like war either. It's just that the alternative sucks more.
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I think I've forgotten this before.
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Originally Posted by Graham2456
Wow !!! Some of the posters here are way to the "right" of Ghengis Khan and seem quite happy to be judge, jury and executioner based on what they have been fed by the media. I may be cynical but I have difficulty taking published reports at face value.
What people are generally expressing are their personal values (me included) and these are generally not influenced by someone elses values or even what they read in published reports.
For what it's worth my own views are based on morals rather than religion. I am at best an agnostic and possibly an atheist.
I don't think people should be detained without a trial.
Guilty people should be punished.
Government sanctioned killing is wrong.
Terrorism is definitely wrong.
Sometimes war is necessary.
Bad things happen in war.
Well that's me in a nutshell. Some will agree and some will disagree (based on personal values).
I used to think that these threads were rubbish but after reading a few I find them quite stimulating and thought provoking especially now that my Activesync no longer works.
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You are right, there are many posters here who would make Adolph Hitler look tame in terms of the rhetoric of intolerance. This would be shocking to me if I had not taken the time to read the on line profiles of some of those posting absurdly fascist things. The explanation for the intolerance of most of these posters is simple; they are children. Late adolescence, mostly, but children all the same. I try to keep in mind that it is the empty drum that beats the loudest. Experience in the world fills one up, and knocks the edges off ideas, blurring the line between black and white, wrong and right. Have you ever noticed that people who know what they are talking about have a smooth economy of words, and very rarely resort to hyperbole?
Economy of prose and a calm self assurance are conspicuously missing from the correspondence of the fascist posting here.
Those who see the world in the stark terms of the more angry posters are either slow in the head or just inexperienced. Advocating the cold blooded murder of detainees is either morally bankrupt or just foolish. There seem to be a very large number of youngsters contributing to this list, so it is not a big surprise to discover some of them in their rage and confusion over 9/11 advocating killing unarmed men in a prison. Only a moron or a child could think that detaining anyone without due prosess is a good idea, much less killing them. Only a fool or a person who is a true believer can kill so callously.
George Bush is a fool, not a naive. But fear not, he has a huge personal staff of naives, so his foolishness is dangerous to us all.
To everyone who wrote to advocate killing the guys we are holding in GitMo: If a single one of you has ever actually tortured or killed a person, I will retract my assertion that you are merely a child. If you have never killed or tortured anyone, then I think you do not know what the hell you are talking about.
Talking about killling people is easy. Doing it is not. If you have never had your personal sense of entitlement trashed, then you are probaly not able to think about the men at GitMo as people and do not understand why due process is important to everyone, not just these terror suspects. If we take revenge upon random detainees for the acts of Bin Laden's minions, we are not very different then the terrorists everyone finds appalling. They too feel that they have a particularly sharp vision of the world that transcends everyone else's understanding. They also feel that this special insight empowers them to subject others to violent acts including murder.
Not so different than the rationalizations of terrorists.
Feh! Americans in general are among the worst informed people on the earth. With lives of incredible privilege and an inborn sense of entitlement, most Americans are ill equiped to make moral or ethical decisions if they impact a radically disenfranchised minority.
I nether worry about fascism and intolerance, or think that I can alter such notions in an email. Yet I believe somebody needs to call bullshit here. Consider this that call.
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Ent. Eng./ Proj. Mngr.
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Have you ever been at the Middle East? lived here? Or is it just too convenient to name people while siting on a warm couch in Fullerton, California? Do you even know what are you talking about, or you were just brainwashed by your local media and friends?
Quote:
I try to keep in mind that it is the empty drum that beats the loudest.
You are right, there are many posters here who would make Adolph Hitler look tame in terms of the rhetoric of intolerance. This would be shocking to me if I had not taken the time to read the on line profiles of some of those posting absurdly fascist things. The explanation for the intolerance of most of these posters is simple; they are children. Late adolescence, mostly, but children all the same. I try to keep in mind that it is the empty drum that beats the loudest. Experience in the world fills one up, and knocks the edges off ideas, blurring the line between black and white, wrong and right. Have you ever noticed that people who know what they are talking about have a smooth economy of words, and very rarely resort to hyperbole?
Economy of prose and a calm self assurance are conspicuously missing from the correspondence of the fascist posting here.
Those who see the world in the stark terms of the more angry posters are either slow in the head or just inexperienced. Advocating the cold blooded murder of detainees is either morally bankrupt or just foolish. There seem to be a very large number of youngsters contributing to this list, so it is not a big surprise to discover some of them in their rage and confusion over 9/11 advocating killing unarmed men in a prison. Only a moron or a child could think that detaining anyone without due prosess is a good idea, much less killing them. Only a fool or a person who is a true believer can kill so callously.
George Bush is a fool, not a naive. But fear not, he has a huge personal staff of naives, so his foolishness is dangerous to us all.
To everyone who wrote to advocate killing the guys we are holding in GitMo: If a single one of you has ever actually tortured or killed a person, I will retract my assertion that you are merely a child. If you have never killed or tortured anyone, then I think you do not know what the hell you are talking about.
Talking about killling people is easy. Doing it is not. If you have never had your personal sense of entitlement trashed, then you are probaly not able to think about the men at GitMo as people and do not understand why due process is important to everyone, not just these terror suspects. If we take revenge upon random detainees for the acts of Bin Laden's minions, we are not very different then the terrorists everyone finds appalling. They too feel that they have a particularly sharp vision of the world that transcends everyone else's understanding. They also feel that this special insight empowers them to subject others to violent acts including murder.
Not so different than the rationalizations of terrorists.
Feh! Americans in general are among the worst informed people on the earth. With lives of incredible privilege and an inborn sense of entitlement, most Americans are ill equiped to make moral or ethical decisions if they impact a radically disenfranchised minority.
I nether worry about fascism and intolerance, or think that I can alter such notions in an email. Yet I believe somebody needs to call bullshit here. Consider this that call.
what an [EDIT]
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