Let me make it very simple then, since you're not getting it.
When I ping www.aximsite.com, my packets travel through a bunch of different networks, collectively known as The Internet.
Let's take a look at one of those hops, it's between Bellsouth.net and Shawcable.net
How did this connection between these two parties occur?
What kind of connection do you think it is?
Who do you think paid for it?
What kind of relationship is this likely to be?
EDIT: And feel free to pick a different hop if you like. What about a link between say Level 3 and Worldcom? Or Cogent and TELUS? You pick.
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Let me make it very simple then, since you're not getting it.
When I ping www.aximsite.com, my packets travel through a bunch of different networks, collectively known as The Internet.
Let's take a look at one of those hops, it's between Bellsouth.net and Shawcable.net
How did this connection between these two parties occur?
What kind of connection do you think it is?
Who do you think paid for it?
What kind of relationship is this likely to be?
qs 1 and 2 are the same. it is a fiber optic tranfer line.
i dont know who paid for it.
i dont know. also i am unsure of how you got this data from a ping. when i do a ping on my windows box i get the data trnaser amount the respoces and a few other assorted stats. i do not get a list of hops. for that i would use the command net trace. o. nvm your a mac user, you are much suppoerior to a pc user. i must then bow down to you. funny though how you cant get your terminal commands right.
My point was that these lines do not appear magically.
Q1 and Q2 are not the same.
Q1 These two parties (both "corps") negotiate this connection between themselves. These is not a central "Internet Body" that magically makes them appear.
Q2 It's likely to be an OC48 or similar (which IS delivered over fibre, you're half right.) :)
Q3 Who paid for it? These things are not free. The ISPs pay big bucks for these lines, going back to my previous point about your "no one owns the vast data pipes" comment. Clearly people DO own these pipes.
Q4 It's likely to be a purchased transit arrangement. There are ALREADY class systems in the Internet today. This is an example.
So yes, they are owned and paid for by people. They're not magic and owned by "nobody". Someone is paying, operating and supporting them.
I use a PC and a Mac. A ping command sends and ICMP packet from my PC (or Mac) to the destination. A Trace Route will tell me the path, but the ICMP packet still traverses a path to get there, regardless of whether I issue a trace or not.
And yes, of course I can get to a terminal on a Mac.
EDIT: And as I've said. I don't particularly like the idea, but I don't think it's QUITE as bad as "one side" is making it out to be. I think before bringing out the torches and pitchforks, spending some time understanding the REAL issues would be worthwhile.
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they also have a link to a site(that's currently down) but it's a group that's fighting this with support from alot of lefty's like aarp and moveon.org, so maybe that'll make it reputable, but then it also has righty's supporting it as well.
anyways i'll try to find some more hard research(like the bill itself) and what not tommorow. um....... wow 2:00am I mean later today.
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- whether you agree that there is or is not Net Neutrality (and most of us are not really qualified enough to debate that point);
- whether you support the bill or not and;
- whether you think that the IPSs are looking to provide QoS or toll booths on every web site
- it's ALWAYS worth looking at the issue from both sides.
Come on guys, be real. This is all about the money and somebodys buiness plan to make more money. All the "Free" stuff has to be snuffed out so the Corps can squeeze out more money. The Internet really stopped being cool a years ago. Remember when you could google foot fungus with out the first thing comming up being get foot fungus at amazon.
what the flash didn't tell you was that in order to get those "lanes" someone has to pay for it.
the question is who's gonna pay for it? do you hi-jack all website and demand a ransom or do you use the free market and only charge those who need/want those pipes?
it's like communism or capitalism. take everyone's money to build the pipes or only take money from people who want/need the pipes.
the isps obvisously want it, but to go and get the police powers of the government to basically make you pay a ransom is going to make the internet worse with the pipes or not. it's like communism the overall experience will suck
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Yeah I'm not 100% sure who the target market for the flash animation was. Clearly NONE of this stuff is free. But I think that's the point behind the whole thing. It's NOT free, someone has to pay for it. I guess they think it's so obvious they don't need to spell it out.
I'm not sure I understand your capitalism / communism comparison. Wouldn't it be the other way?
No Net Neutrality - The deployment of QoS services allows selected companies to choose to pay to increase the performance of their traffic over the Internet. Not government controlled, it would be a free market.
Net Neutrality - Everyone is treated fairly. no matter what. Government regulated with no room for any sort of class system.
It looks to me like it's the Net Neutrality folks that want "Internet Communism".
I've still yet to see anything about people being held to ransom.
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Come on guys, be real. This is all about the money and somebodys buiness plan to make more money. All the "Free" stuff has to be snuffed out so the Corps can squeeze out more money. The Internet really stopped being cool a years ago. Remember when you could google foot fungus with out the first thing comming up being get foot fungus at amazon.
Of course it's about money. There is not a charity called "The Internet". Inversely, The Internet has made billions and billions of dollars for successful capitalists.
And if you want to highlight the foot fungus issue - that's the content providers, not the ISPs.
The BIGGEST issue that I see is fear of the unknown. The vast majority of people really have little idea how the Internet really works and coupled with the "toll booth" stories, people get scared.
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If this passes, and it resticts people from getting to some sites in a reasonable amount of time, I wouldnt be suprised if proxy services that could override this would become more popular.
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- whether you agree that there is or is not Net Neutrality (and most of us are not really qualified enough to debate that point);
- whether you support the bill or not and;
- whether you think that the IPSs are looking to provide QoS or toll booths on every web site
- it's ALWAYS worth looking at the issue from both sides.
Wow, I have never seen a more biased, stupid argument. That video might persaude me if I was a idiot but if you have any common sense you will see it for what it is. Stuff like this is why people can't stay informed.
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Wow, I have never seen a more biased, stupid argument. That video might persaude me if I was a idiot but if you have any common sense you will see it for what it is. Stuff like this is why people can't stay informed.
Of course it's going to be biased. It's coming from the ISPs. Just like the "toll booth" "end of the Internet as we know it" argument is also going to be biased.
But what you made you think it was idiotic and uninformed?
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