<CommentatorVoice>
Zahc throws a test tube at reese...
Oh..oh..wait a minute! reese hits Zahc with a left hook! Zahc is down...
What a stunning upset...
</CommentatorVoice>
Originally Posted by Quran verse 9:11 (from that truth-or-fiction link above
"But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and we make the communications clear for a people who know."
Perhaps the Sunni should read this. They are less than kind to their brothers in faith.
OK Radimus, I'm willing to let you use these 500 chemically inert shells to justify the war. It doesn't help your cause, but sure, go ahead and use it.
Let's see... 500 shells, 2500 American deaths, 30,000 American casualties=
5 dead and 60 wounded soldiers per 1 chemically inert shell. Sounds like a deal to me!
They were not chemically inert... they are all of various stages of condition.
Point being, he said he disarmed
That was one of the conditions imposed upon him at the surrender during desert storm 1
he didn't get rid of them, he hid them... hid them so well that 10 years of inspectors missed all trace of them.
The fact that they have been picked up and used by insurgents/terrorists means that they haven't been contained, they are not controlled, and that was one of the biggest concerns that was discussed about them.
The fact that they have ben buried, or hidden uncontained, means that any of them could be a risk of accidental exposure to the population in general.
You can all say how crappy they are and how useless they may be, but it only takes one good one used in a population center to harm dozens or hundreds of people... one of the ones that he was supposed to have gotten rid of 15 years ago and lied about doing so.
No one said these are the ones that was used for justification, but they are evidence of Saddams disdain of the UN and the worthlessness of the UN inspectors.
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These shells are CLEARLY not the imminent threat that was spoken about.
the words SHOT and DOWN come to mind.
Quote:
chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentionally lethal.
what do these not count? you wanted proof of wmds, this isn't old news, this de-classified document(which was de-classified yesterday june 21, 2006) says 500 chemical munitions(wmds) was recovered in iraq since 2003.
you said you wanted wmds, is 500 chemical munitions(which remain hazardous and potentionally lethatl) not wmds? and if so what constitutes a "wmd"? is a wmd a weapon that was only developed after 91? and what do you mean no proof? "500 chemical muntions where found in iraq since 2003" is that not proof enough from a classified document?
if not then what is proof?
you said bushed lied about wmds to get into iraq, now you say no no, it was only 1 reason. here's proof and you change your stories around.
if this isn't proof enough to justify the war then what is?
some one divided up deaths to each munition found.
okay lets do some more math.
lets say 50% of the munitions found were lethal(the other half we wont count)
lets say of that 50%, they were all used in attacks, lets just say a bus to keep it easy.
75% of the attacks were successful the other 25% were either stoped or the munitions didn't go off.
now lets say that each bus had an average of 20 passengers.
those munitions at 100% lethality could kill 100% of the passengers, but since they were old lets just say they are at 25% lethality.
using those numbers(which I consider very conservative)
thats 250 bus attacks of which 187.5(we'll round it down) 187 of the attacks were successful.
of those attacks each attack killed 5 people, we'll leave injured people out of it(but remember a really easy way to figure out injuries compared to deaths is roughly twice deaths in general).
so all in all 935 people dies, no no no this isn't any big deal no almost 1000 people is nothing.
roughly 1000 people die and it wouldn't have mattered.
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Quote:
These shells are CLEARLY not the imminent threat that was spoken about.
chemical weapons weren't what the US said that saddam had?
what exactly did bush say? saddam has wmds, of which, chemical weapons that existed before 91 we're not after..... something like this?
I've never heard anything remotely like this out of bushes mouth, or any other politician.
__________________
__________________
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
They were not chemically inert... they are all of various stages of condition.
Point being, he said he disarmed
That was one of the conditions imposed upon him at the surrender during desert storm 1
he didn't get rid of them, he hid them... hid them so well that 10 years of inspectors missed all trace of them.
The fact that they have been picked up and used by insurgents/terrorists means that they haven't been contained, they are not controlled, and that was one of the biggest concerns that was discussed about them.
The fact that they have ben buried, or hidden uncontained, means that any of them could be a risk of accidental exposure to the population in general.
You can all say how crappy they are and how useless they may be, but it only takes one good one used in a population center to harm dozens or hundreds of people... one of the ones that he was supposed to have gotten rid of 15 years ago and lied about doing so.
No one said these are the ones that was used for justification, but they are evidence of Saddams disdain of the UN and the worthlessness of the UN inspectors.
Did you see the news tonight on anything other than FOX? The story has been debunked entirely and even the DEFENSE DEPARTMENT said that these weapons WERE NOT the weapons we went to war for.
End of story. Game over. Thanks for playing though! You know the debate is over when the right wing lap dog press completely debunks the story (all stations except FOX so far) :love: !
edit: JMJSelect, do you realize you can cook up mustard gas, even sarin in your kitchen? Do you realize how much of a waste of time it would be to smuggle one of these unusable shells to the US and attempt to use it on a bus? One could do far more damage with legally, readily availble materials. These weapons were not a threat in the LEAST! Are you so brainwashed that your cowering in the closet worrying a terrorist will board your bus with a CHEMICALLY INERT 20 year old shell smuggled from Iraq? Think about it. Your scared! The President has you believing this crap! FOX News has you believing this crap. You don't need to live your life like this in fear. These people are using fear to keep people like you voting for them. This isn't the America I grew up in and love. We shouldn't be electing our leaders completely out of irrational FEAR like this!
Did you see the news tonight on anything other than FOX? The story has been debunked entirely and even the DEFENSE DEPARTMENT said that these weapons WERE NOT the weapons we went to war for.
End of story. Game over. Thanks for playing though! You know the debate is over when the right wing lap dog press completely debunks the story (all stations except FOX so far) :love: !
can you debunk it for me( i don't have cable ) if not can you send me in the right direction on the web ( i'm lazy )
__________________
__________________
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
Did you see the news tonight on anything other than FOX? The story has been debunked entirely and even the DEFENSE DEPARTMENT said that these weapons WERE NOT the weapons we went to war for.
End of story. Game over. Thanks for playing though! You know the debate is over when the right wing lap dog press completely debunks the story (all stations except FOX so far) :love: !
edit: JMJSelect, do you realize you can cook up mustard gas, even sarin in your kitchen? Do you realize how much of a waste of time it would be to smuggle one of these unusable shells to the US and attempt to use it on a bus? One could do far more damage with legally, readily availble materials. These weapons were not a threat in the LEAST! Are you so brainwashed that your cowering in the closet worrying a terrorist will board your bus with a CHEMICALLY INERT 20 year old shell smuggled from Iraq? Think about it. Your scared! The President has you believing this crap! FOX News has you believing this crap. You don't need to live your life like this in fear. These people are using fear to keep people like you voting for them. This isn't the America I grew up in and love. We shouldn't be electing our leaders completely out of irrational FEAR like this!
no the whole issue with the iraq war was that there was no wmd's so the war wasn't justified.
you wanted iraq to never have been invaded and saddam still in power. if so, you wouldn't need to have smuggled them. you would just have to fork over some money, and if we never went in saddam wouldn't be selling old crap ass munitions he would be selling up- to date chemical/biological munitions because he would still be running his wmd factories.
Quote:
Are you so brainwashed that your cowering in the closet worrying a terrorist will board your bus with a CHEMICALLY INERT 20 year old shell smuggled from Iraq?
I don't own a bus.
am I scared of the islamic extremists? f#*k yes i'm F83KING scared of them, you need to wake up from your brainwashing,
saddam was a terrorist(and there's no agruing there) with wmds, in a world where out of the 180ish major fire-fights, 3 of them have no islamic militants involved. islam is trying to convert the world. the overwhelming vast majority of the fire-fights in the world have islamic militants involved on one side.
and they just won a major victory in europe, right now europeans are trying to pass a law making it illegal to offend any thing related to islam or those who practice it. they are trying to convert the world and they are doing just that.
WAKE UP, they're next door to us. do you realize this. you know the incident up north, the 18 terrorist planning to blow this and that up and behead the prime minister, WAKE UP. they had twice the explosives that was used in the oklahoma building bombing. THEY'RE NEXT DOOOR. AND WHAT DID CANADA DO?
if you want to live your worry free life where lolli-pops and and candies fall out of the sky and life is all ho-hummm beautiful then don't worry about islam. they're not trying to take over the world(what was it something like 2000 terrorist attacks since 911)
YOUR DAMN RIGHT I'M F89KING AFRAID OF TERRORISTS BLOWING DOWN MY DOOR AND BEHEADING ME AFTER MUTILATING ME, MY FAMILY, MY FRIENDS, AND MY FELLOW COUNTRY MEN, YOUR DAMN RIGHT I'M AFRAID OF TERRORISM.
and now there's some terrorist activity down in miami, no attacks or anything but I think they have some terrorists arrested.
what i'm not afraid of is taking the war to the terrorists and any criticism that comes with that from these demonrats/anti-americans/anti-war/and these peace at any price crowd even if it means i'm killed or converted or dominated.
you need to wake up, right now there are terrorists planning and preparing death and terror on americans as we speak, are you not afraid of this?
__________________
__________________
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
And for all purposes, it doesn't matter if they were all 100% inert, he wasn't supposed to have them.
He went in front of the UN and said he didn't have any... that was 15 years ago when they would have still been good.
The UN inspectors that were there to look for them, didn't find them and they had years (10-15) to do so.
So for as far as whether the story is debunked goes.... NO ONE said these were the smoking gun.
The Congressmen never said they were the smoking gun
Fox never said they were the smoking gun
Everyone has said that Saddam had them and that he had them for years and he didn't destroy them... and no one has any answers why the UN weapons inspectors couldn't find them... No one has asked Saddam, "Excuse me, what are these? Didn't you say that you destroyed them?"
__________________
Quote:
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." -- John Quincy Adams
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The UN inspectors that were there to look for them, didn't find them and they had years (10-15) to do so.
the un inspectors were never sent into iraq to look for wmds. everyone knows saddam had them, he had to account for all the weapons had.
what the un inspectors were sent into iraq to do was to make sure that saddam destroyed his weapons and his facilities and weapons program as a condition at the end of the gulf war.
__________________
__________________
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
the un inspectors were never sent into iraq to look for wmds. everyone knows saddam had them, he had to account for all the weapons had.
what the un inspectors were sent into iraq to do was to make sure that saddam destroyed his weapons and his facilities and weapons program as a condition at the end of the gulf war.
The Defense Department today said that the (useless) chemical weapons that were found 3 years ago in Iraq, were NOT the WMD we went to Iraq for. Here's a video clip from FOX NEWS of all places. http://images1.americanprogress.org/...od.320.240.mov2006/santorumdod.320.240.mov
If you want more, and in much more detail, watch tonights reruns any of the prime time cable news outlets (situation room, harball, countdown, etc.). These are not the weapons we went to war for, we knew he had these very same weapons before going in, we knew these same weapons were not a threat because the chemicals within the shells breaks down and becomes inert within 3 months of making it.
JMJSELECT... I used to think the same thing as you. This was back in the day when I watched Fox News everyday. I actually believed there were terrorists right around the corner waiting to kill me. But, after having my eyes opened I realized these same people were telling me this crap in order to stay in power. Sure, there are bad people out there, maybe even the occasional terrorist, but if you think 'fighting them over there' has made you safer then I have some water front property to sell you. Look at what you have mixed together in your posts... Fear of terrorism with Loyalty to Bush and the Republican Party. You have bought a bill of goods that terrorists are everywhere, and Bush is the only thing that will save you. Its sad to see an American so deeply deceived. Bush has become your God, the only person that can save you from the boogymen.
They were not chemically inert... they are all of various stages of condition.
Point being, he said he disarmed
That was one of the conditions imposed upon him at the surrender during desert storm 1
he didn't get rid of them, he hid them... hid them so well that 10 years of inspectors missed all trace of them.
The fact that they have been picked up and used by insurgents/terrorists means that they haven't been contained, they are not controlled, and that was one of the biggest concerns that was discussed about them.
The fact that they have ben buried, or hidden uncontained, means that any of them could be a risk of accidental exposure to the population in general.
You can all say how crappy they are and how useless they may be, but it only takes one good one used in a population center to harm dozens or hundreds of people... one of the ones that he was supposed to have gotten rid of 15 years ago and lied about doing so.
No one said these are the ones that was used for justification, but they are evidence of Saddams disdain of the UN and the worthlessness of the UN inspectors.
He may not have even remembered he had those, after all, he didn't use them in the 92 war and didn't use them in Bush II's war. Most likely they are leftover from the chemical weapons Reagan gave him to use against Iran.
Radimus, I'd like for you to prove to the rest of us that YOU DON'T have any chemical weapons. Just think about it. Impossible task isn't it? Particularly, if I'm unwilling to accept any evidence you offer, because I plan to invade your home anyway.
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