Has the US government gone too far?

JMJSelect · 07-06-06, 09:07 PM

I don't know about you but I'm having a really really hard time excepting this as a good use of my hard earned money. I can understand the reasoning behind it(like other countries knowing bush's health statis....) but man... I'm paying for someone to collect bush's sh'ite

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

i'll just post the stuff here, since it's a blog and you'll have to do alot of scrolling

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July 4, 2006 -- Even Bush's crap is classified top secret. According to our Austrian sources, Austrian newspapers are currently abuzz with special security details of George W. Bush's recent trip to Vienna. Although the heavy-handed Gestapo-like security measures meted out to Viennese home owners, business proprietors, and pedestrians by US Secret Service agents and local police before and during Bush's visit received widespread Austrian media attention, it was White House "toilet security" ("TOILSEC"), which has Austrians talking the most. The White House flew in a special portable toilet to Vienna for Bush's personal use during his visit. The Bush White House is so concerned about Bush's security, the veil of secrecy extends over the president's bodily excretions. The special port-a-john captured Bush's feces and urine and flew the waste material back to the United States in the event some enterprising foreign intelligence agency conducted a sewage pipe operation designed to trap and examine Bush's waste material. One can only wonder why the White House is taking such extraordinary security measures for the presidential poop.

In the past, similar operations were conducted against foreign leaders to determine their medical condition. However, these intelligence operations were directed against dictators in countries where even the medical conditions of the top political leaders were considered "state secrets." The Israeli Mossad conducted one such operation against Syrian President Hafez Assad when he visited Amman, Jordan in Feb. 1999 for the funeral of King Hussein. The Mossad and its Jordanian counterpart installed a special toilet in Assad's hotel room that led not to a pipe but to a specimen canister. Assad suffered from diabetes and cancer and the operation was designed to discover the actual medical condition of the ailing leader. During Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev's visit to Washington in 1987, the CIA reportedly placed a special trap under a sewage tank to collect the Soviet leader's bodily waste for analysis. More recently, the CIA was reported to have collected waste samples from Ugandan President-dictator Yoweri Museveni's toilet when he visited Washington.

Even Bush's toilet paper was flown in from the U.S. Air Base at Ramstein, Germany. In addition, Bush's food was flown in from the United States and tested with special chemicals before he ate it. Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu, who was shot by a firing squad in 1989, was the last major European leader to constantly use a food tester. The last frequent state visitor to Vienna, who always relied on a food tester, was Adolf Hitler.

Shizelbs · 07-06-06, 09:30 PM

This is nothing compared to other crap they pull. This is small potatoes. Stupid and frivilous yes, but relatively nothing.

pettit · 07-06-06, 09:37 PM

I thank I'll need more reliable sources to believe this one.

slowjett · 07-06-06, 09:37 PM

Has Bush gone too far?

Well come on Treason is over rated anyway.

Bagelsnbrew · 07-06-06, 09:48 PM

The crap had to be flown back to the US because it is indistinguishable from the man himself. If Bush fell in and was lost to the sewer, his crap could easily be mistaken as POTUS. The superior intellect and independence of the crap would not mesh well with the administrations "brain trust". Competent crap will not be tolerated by this group!

jnev · 07-06-06, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Bagelsnbrew

The crap had to be flown back to the US because it is indistinguishable from the man himself. If Bush fell in and was lost to the sewer, his crap could easily be mistaken as POTUS. The superior intellect and independence of the crap would not mesh well with the administrations "brain trust". Competent crap will not be tolerated by this group!

wow, umm.. a little extreme perhaps? I realize that everybody has different political views, but now you're just starting to sound like cindy sheehan...

care to explain your position?

RobMan · 07-06-06, 10:12 PM

So interesting the anger and childlike arguments in the lefties posting in these threads. Very few good reasonable debators.

One of the few exceptions is Firebush in his "Inconvenient Truth" thread.

JMJSelect · 07-06-06, 10:28 PM

you know what's amazing to me is that anger and hatrid towards bush is greater than anger and haterid toward dictators like the shaw of iran or kim jung mentally ill.

jnev · 07-06-06, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

you know what's amazing to me is that anger and hatrid towards bush is greater than anger and haterid toward dictators like the shaw of iran or kim jung mentally ill.

that's so true, and it really is sad...

firebush · 07-07-06, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

you know what's amazing to me is that anger and hatrid towards bush is greater than anger and haterid toward dictators like the shaw of iran or kim jung mentally ill.

Hmm, gotta disagree with ya there. I think your mistaking disagreement for Bush's policies with hatred. I don't hate the man, and I respect the office of the Presidency, but I'm outright disgusted with his policies. To me, holding America's leaders accountable is the most patriotic thing one can do in this great country, even if it pisses a few of his fans off in the process.

I am disgusted with Kim Jong (sp?) but I can't do much personally to hold him accountable. My president DOES have that power, however I'm a bit disgusted how he has handled this very real threat to our country. He has squandered our precious resources in a needless war, and has made our country weaker as a result. They say to speak softly and carry a big stick... well, Bush speaks loudly, but we don't have much of a stick at the moment, because its bogged down in Iraq. Also, even if we pulled out of Iraq today, our military is in BAD shape for some time. It needs to be replenished with freshly trained soldiers, because we can't keep sending the guys that have already seen 2 or 3 tours of duty in Iraq.

Would Kim J be firing off missle tests right now if we had all our guys back home prepared to kick someone's ass if needed? I doubt it. He's doing it because he knows we can't do much to stop him. He also knows that our worldwide influence has dropped. Other nations are less likely to join with us to pressure N.Korea. Why? Because we went to war and ignored what the rest of the world thought. Ya don't play nice in the sandbox, ya won't make many friends.

I hear these charges far too much from the right... if you disagree with the president, you hate America...if you disagree with the war in Iraq, you hate our soldiers and make them sad. I'm disgusted at our President because he has divided our nation and turned us against each other, right against left. Neither side will listen to the other side, because our leadership has turned us against each other. He has taken our religions, and turned them against each other, even within individual religions. He has spread this lie (through his echo chamber) that real christians are republican, and the lefties.. well, their godless sinners (ann coulter anyone?). I have very real problems with the way our President is leading, but to say I prefer dictators and terrorists??

by the way... 'People hate the president more than dictators/terrorists'... that's a talking point created and spread by Karl Rove. It's divisive, and unfortunately it works. It's also patently untrue. Remember, you're saying this to other Americans. Do you really think any American feels this way? C'mon, stop spreading this crap for the good of our country.

psionandy · 07-07-06, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by RobMan

So interesting the anger and childlike arguments in the lefties posting in these threads. Very few good reasonable debators.

One of the few exceptions is Firebush in his "Inconvenient Truth" thread.

The anger and childish threads from the left, are beautifully balanced by the ignorence and arrogence of posters from the right

You're right about the lack of good debators... though. Maybe the way arround it is to run it more like a debating society. Assign people to sides and let them argue the case from that perspective. So (to pick names at random) Radimus may end up promoting the cause of a more unionised workforce, whilst Reese had to argue for less controlls on Business (Assuming that everyone wanted to play),

It would take a bit of organising, but it may be better than the "you're an idiot"/"you smell" type of political debates we have here at present.

[edit]
And posters who can't even be bothered to read the posts/links that they quote
[/edit]

JMJSelect · 07-07-06, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by firebush

I don't hate the man

well then i'm not talking about you. your one of the sane one's just alittle misinformed.

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They say to speak softly and carry a big stick... well, Bush speaks loudly, but we don't have much of a stick at the moment, because its bogged down in Iraq. Also, even if we pulled out of Iraq today, our military is in BAD shape for some time. It needs to be replenished with freshly trained soldiers, because we can't keep sending the guys that have already seen 2 or 3 tours of duty in Iraq.

1. I have to disagree, bush speaks softly and dropped his stick sometime shortly after the initial invasion of iraq. we are fighting a politically correct 17th century guerilla war while we have the technology, ability, and the will to fight a 21st century war. this is bush's decision. he's soft on the war.

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He's doing it because he knows we can't do much to stop him.

this is a bigger issue than just N.Korea, china basically shoved N.Korea in front of us to distract us, once again we have the technology, ability, and the will to fight a war that could put kim jung mentally ill in his place. the bigger issue is really china, that's what we really have to worry about.

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He also knows that our worldwide influence has dropped. Other nations are less likely to join with us to pressure N.Korea. Why? Because we went to war and ignored what the rest of the world thought. Ya don't play nice in the sandbox, ya won't make many friends.

it would be crazy to change america's forien policy to what the world thinks how we should do this or that.

we've played nice in the sandbox for a long long time before this war, and now the "so-called" friends are trying to push us out of the sand box. because we played nice <--- this is a more accurate representation of reality.

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I hear this charge far too much from the right. If you disagree with the president, you hate America. If you disagree with the war in Iraq, you hate our soldiers and make them sad.

hill-da-beast?

I disagree with the president, even on how he's running this war, and I would probaly be the last to hate america.

however I really do disagree with the second.

if you support cops how could you say stop arresting criminals, pull out off the streets, come back to the station?

if you support fire men how could you say stop putting out fires, pull out off the streets, come back to the station?

if you support the troops how could you say stop fighting terrorism, pull out of iraq, come back home?

this just does not make sense to me.

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I'm disgusted at our President because he has divided our nation and turned us against each other, right against left. Neither side will listen to the other side, because our leadership has turned us against each other. He has taken our religions, and turned them against each other, even within individual religions. He has spread this lie (through his echo chamber) that real christians are republican, and the lefties.. well, their godless sinners (ann coulter anyone?). I have very real problems with the way our President is leading, but to say I prefer dictators and terrorists??

this division has been going on long before pres bush. you say bush spread the lie of republicans are chrisians and lfeties are godless, then you point out that ann coulter said it. why are you blaming pres bush for somehting he didn't do?

and you need to read the book to understand the whole point behind "liberalism, god less religion".

Quote:

by the way... 'People hate the president more than dictators/terrorists'... that's a talking point created and spread by Karl Rove. It's divisive, and unfortunately it works. It's also patently untrue. Remember, your saying this to other Americans. Do you really think any American feels this way? C'mon, stop spreading this crap for the good of our country.

this is reality and I never mentioned you and never said, lefties, liberals, democrats, anti-americans, anti-war,........ I said hatred(which would only count if you hated bush) towards bush is greater than hatered towards dictators.

firebush · 07-07-06, 01:53 AM

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

well then i'm not talking about you. your one of the sane one's just alittle misinformed.

Who else are you talking to? I don't see anyone else saying they HATE Bush! Everyone else seems to say things similar to what I say. If you can't find someone screaming they hate Bush, guess what! You built a nice big strawman, and then knocked him down. The strawman being "So many people hate Bush more than they hate terrorists/dictators." Then you beat up on libs for being that way, when you started out with a totally false premise. Nice straw man!

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

1. I have to disagree, bush speaks softly and dropped his stick sometime shortly after the initial invasion of iraq. we are fighting a politically correct 17th century guerilla war while we have the technology, ability, and the will to fight a 21st century war. this is bush's decision. he's soft on the war.

Were gonna smoke 'em out, hunt em down and kill em talk? That's soft? Also, we are fighting a 17th century war? What are you saying we do? Use nukes and be done with it? What other options do we have at our disposal? An air war alone can't possible cut it! I'm totally lost on this point JMJ.

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

this is a bigger issue than just N.Korea, china basically shoved N.Korea in front of us to distract us, once again we have the technology, ability, and the will to fight a war that could put kim jung mentally ill in his place. the bigger issue is really china, that's what we really have to worry about.

We have good weapons, but not enough knowledgeable men to use those weapons. We have squandered our most precious resource for waging war... trained men. We can't just pull all the guys that have served 3 tours back in to fight another war. We could draft a bunch of new guys, but they lack the skills and expertise. It will take years to get our military truly back into the shape it was in before we went to war. What do you propose we do, bomb N.Korea without a ground invasion?

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

it would be crazy to change america's forien policy to what the world thinks how we should do this or that.

Right. But you just put it in black and white. Diplomacy is not black and white. We need to work with other nations in order to get them on our side when possible. The more people on our side, the stronger we are, and the less cost to us in lives and resources. This macho "We'll do what we want because were bigger so screw France!" attitude shows Bush is incompetant in diplomacy. You use diplomacy to make you stronger. Making fun of diplomacy makes one an idiot. (Not you, just a general statement...)

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

we've played nice in the sandbox for a long long time before this war, and now the "so-called" friends are trying to push us out of the sand box. because we played nice <--- this is a more accurate representation of reality.

Who was trying to push us out of the sandbox? Last I remember, almost the entire world objected to us going into Iraq! If Iraq really was a threat, why didn't we take the time to make the case to the world? Colin Powell pleaded with Bush to go to the UN, and Bush finally gave in. But, that didn't last for long. A few weeks later, he gave a big FU to the UN and went anyway, without the worlds support. It wasn't the US getting pushed out of the sandbox, it was the US pushing everyone else out of the sandbox and saying this is all mine.. I'm doing what I want and no one can stop me!

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

hill-da-beast?

I disagree with the president, even on how he's running this war, and I would probaly be the last to hate america.

however I really do disagree with the second.

if you support cops how could you say stop arresting criminals, pull out off the streets, come back to the station?

if you support fire men how could you say stop putting out fires, pull out off the streets, come back to the station?

if you support the troops how could you say stop fighting terrorism, pull out of iraq, come back home?

this just does not make sense to me.

I wasn't saying that to you. I was saying those are BS charges made by the right. Go back and read what I said. I can see how you may have mistaken what I was trying to say..

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

this division has been going on long before pres bush. you say bush spread the lie of republicans are chrisians and lfeties are godless, then you point out that ann coulter said it. why are you blaming pres bush for somehting he didn't do?

and you need to read the book to understand the whole point behind "liberalism, god less religion".

Yes, the Bush admin spread that lie, BIG TIME. Mostly this was done through the echo chamber, but that echo chamber starts with Karl Rove, Bush's brain. Ann Coulter was the most recent example. Her charge was the most blunt, but nothing different from what we have heard all along. Do you really believe that though? Liberalism is a godless religion?? That's the most sick, unAmerican lie I've ever heard in my life. Please JMJ, tell me you don't believe liberals are godless. :realmad: Please tell me you didn't buy the 'Republicans are right because God votes republican lie. To me, any side that implies they are right because God says were right is following someone entirely different than God...

Originally Posted by JMJSelect

this is reality and I never mentioned you and never said, lefties, liberals, democrats, anti-americans, anti-war,........ I said hatred(which would only count if you hated bush) towards bush is greater than hatered towards dictators.

Well, if thats the case, then you're not talking about anyone on the left because no one hate's Bush more than enemies of the US. Big 'ol strawman JMJ. Just suck it up and admit it and move on.

aquacooled · 07-07-06, 02:20 AM

personaly it sounds like a bunch of crap to me... no pun intended

JMJSelect · 07-07-06, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by firebush

Who else are you talking to? I don't see anyone else saying they HATE Bush! Everyone else seems to say things similar to what I say. If you can't find someone screaming they hate Bush, guess what! You built a nice big strawman, and then knocked him down. The strawman being "So many people hate Bush more than they hate terrorists/dictators." Then you beat up on libs for being that way, when you started out with a totally false premise. Nice straw man!

then your blinded from reality, you might not hate bush but there's many here in this country and abroad.

[/quote]Were gonna smoke 'em out, hunt em down and kill em talk? That's soft? Also, we are fighting a 17th century war? What are you saying we do? Use nukes and be done with it? What other options do we have at our disposal? An air war alone can't possible cut it! I'm totally lost on this point JMJ.[/quote]
yeah that's soft talk, loud talk is the unrestrainted shouting and yelling and threathing like crazy bla bla bla....

no, no nukes. we have air power and we should use it, completely flatten the sunni triange, like we did in the gulf war(air power wise). we haven't really used air power to the extent we did in the gulf. in the invasion(this war) planes would come back with the majority of bombs it left with because of lack of targets. surround the sunni triangle, create a block-ade(sp?) get all civilians out of there, and bomb the hell out of the terrorists, level everything, this would do 2 things: 1 kill ALOT of terrorists, 2. send a clear and percise message that hey we aren't playing around here. we are gonna do everything we can do kill you. powell said in the beginning that america would use every posible means it could to kill the enemy to save american soliders lifes. we aren't. and too many american soliders lifes are being lost when we have the means to destory them from a distance.

the guerilla thing: we are fighting them on their level, and they're fighting a geurilla war. we aren't useing every possible means to kill them.

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We have good weapons, but not enough knowledgeable men to use those weapons. We have squandered our most precious resource for waging war... trained men. We can't just pull all the guys that have served 3 tours back in to fight another war. We could draft a bunch of new guys, but they lack the skills and expertise. It will take years to get our military truly back into the shape it was in before we went to war. What do you propose we do, bomb N.Korea without a ground invasion?

not to sure about the first sentence so I won't post a reply

the majority of troops in iraq only served 1 tour, next being 2 then 3...... and the US military isn't all in iraq

what about all those drafted in ww2, inexperienced and they brought down a battled hardened enemy times 2(germany/japan).

no invasion, we kill their launchpads. isreal didn't do a ground invasion when they took out the nukes. N.Korea won't retaliate because china backs them, and china needs us right now.

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Right. But you just put it in black and white. Diplomacy is not black and white. We need to work with other nations in order to get them on our side when possible. The more people on our side, the stronger we are, and the less cost to us in lives and resources. This macho "We'll do what we want because were bigger so screw France!" attitude shows Bush is incompetant in diplomacy. You use diplomacy to make you stronger. Making fun of diplomacy makes one an idiot. (Not you, just a general statement...)

iraq has been a problem for 10+ years, the only thing the UN did was constistently say to Iraq: "hey you better stop it, if you don't next time we're gonna tell you to stop it".

US security was on the line, we tried to do it diplomaticly for 10+ years, it was time to do what we said we were gonna do when saddam was fooling around.

this coalition has more members than the gulf war coalition.

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Who was trying to push us out of the sandbox? Last I remember, almost the entire world objected to us going into Iraq! If Iraq really was a threat, why didn't we take the time to make the case to the world? Colin Powell pleaded with Bush to go to the UN, and Bush finally gave in. But, that didn't last for long. A few weeks later, he gave a big FU to the UN and went anyway, without the worlds support. It wasn't the US getting pushed out of the sandbox, it was the US pushing everyone else out of the sandbox and saying this is all mine.. I'm doing what I want and no one can stop me!

take the time to make a case? 10+ years of failed deplomacy. what else is there to do? "we'll tell you to stop more"

once again this coalition has more members than the gulf war coalition

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I wasn't saying that to you. I was saying those are BS charges made by the right. Go back and read what I said. I can see how you may have mistaken what I was trying to say..

no, I know. I understood what you said.

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Yes, the Bush admin spread that lie, BIG TIME. Mostly this was done through the echo chamber, but that echo chamber starts with Karl Rove, Bush's brain. Ann Coulter was the most recent example. Her charge was the most blunt, but nothing different from what we have heard all along. Do you really believe that though? Liberalism is a godless religion?? That's the most sick, unAmerican lie I've ever heard in my life. Please JMJ, tell me you don't believe liberals are godless. :realmad: Please tell me you didn't buy the 'Republicans are right because God votes republican lie. To me, any side that implies they are right because God says were right is following someone entirely different than God...

1. I know some liberals who are the devoutest(sp?) christians, I know liberals aren't godless, some are religious some aren't.

2. the ann coulter thing. you don't understand the point of the book.

liberalism by definition is a religion, with it's belief's, it's traditions, it's morals......

liberal's understand that they could exploit the whole religion and government thing. so they set themselves up so that their religion, by definition, could influence the government.

the whole "godless" thing is a huge loop hole that they could use to get their belief's and bla bla bla into government without worrying about the religious(by definition) aspects, seperation of government and religion.

she's not saying liberals are godless but that liberalism by definition is a religion and that they left out god so they could inject their belief's into government without worrying about the seperatation of church and state that they're pushing so hard for. when you think about it, it's a very very brilliant strategy. ann caught this and now they're mad because she called them on it.

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Well, if thats the case, then you're not talking about anyone on the left because no one hate's Bush more than enemies of the US. Big 'ol strawman JMJ. Just suck it up and admit it and move on.

shehann? she obviously hates bush, and she loves chavez(sp?) an enemy of america. she said recently that she'd rather live in his country than the US.(but she's still here

)