Thinking that just because America uses 25 percent of the worlds gasoline does not make it the biggest poluter. Especialy if the other 75 percent does not have polution controls on their cars.
You're missing the bigger part of the ratio...we don't have 1/4 of the world's population and yet we use that much in oil related products. If 5% of the population is using 25% of the resources then you get the dependency we have now. Something grave will have to happen before people realize that we need different and more efficent means of power.
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we already know that we need a different and more efficient means of power, it's just we are in the period right now where we are trying to move from the old to the new. and we just started that transition.
it's not that we don't care about the environment, it's what can we do within reason. do we either drop everything(cars, industries,...) and start over inventing absolute zero pollution creating devices while destorying our economy, or do we transition from the old way of doing things while minimizing that shock that would occur to our economy.
the kyoto is obviously closer to the first than what america is doing now.
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Okay 5% of the population is using 25 % of the worlds gasoline. That does not mean the that same nation produces 25% of the worlds CO2. Your believing that burning gasoline is the only cause of CO2 and that the other 75 percent of gasoline consumption is as clean as the US. Both of those last two statements are False.
I said oil products. The natural gas they burn off as a by-product of drilling, the burning of coal, oil AND gasoline. How do you think we get electricity? Don't you think we burn all the above and use nuclear power? Campfires don't help but they aren't the cause. Look at the nation of Haiti...they don't have any trees to speak of and live in horrible poverty, the part of the island they inhabit has no topsoil to plant crops and no more trees that they used to maufacture charcoal.
Within the next ten years we will reach a tipping point of resources. China alone will make or break the resource chain. The entire world cannot sustain the rate of consumption....a bit of conservation will go along way for everyone.
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I wish there was less bashing on the developping countries. Let's not forget that the developped ones are more than happy to have China (for instance) as a cheap working force. Let's not forget either, that many EU & US companies have decided to relocate there, in order to reduce costs and, well do what they do best, make profit. So, yes there is a problem there too, but don't criticize too much, what you benefit from.
The fact that India is not obliged to reduce it's emission (although they ratified the protocol) means that they will benefit from the technology and economic help from developped countries in order to limit their greenhouse gaz (ghg) emissions (see Kyoto protocol article in wikipedia). I find it fair. US will have to pay the price, more than for instance EU ? Well they have more economic power, I find it fair. It isn't anymore if it costs US too much and causes job losses (etc.) to US-citizens. However, that seems a bit far-fetched.
As for the example of LA air pollution, I just bought the July National Magazine which had a photo of the LA river trash collection workers on the job. Amazing the quantity of garbadge they were working on. I did a quick search on the net, couldn't find it. Anyway, I'm not saying that's only an US problem, on the contrary, but do not tell me that everything is fine there...
This is the whole world's problem, let's treat it as such.
Naw, see I am an engineer so when I see a list like that I ask how did they collect that data? Go look this up, what polutes more a honda accord or a horse? Which produces more CO2?
I am not bashing developing countries, just pointing out that the biggest bang for the buck would be applying already acquired technology there. Is the US perfectly clean, I will be the first to say no and we need to do more. Just don't act like the US is doing nothing and the world will end because or the US's lack of action.
Wow, I'm an idiot? Why don't you link to those "thousands" of scientists that can debunk global warming before you call people names. Quit watching FoxNews...you might learn something.
Just think about one thing.... have you ever seen any mainstream media outlet provide a balance on the THEORY of human-caused global warming by providing a point of view from scientists who are against this theory and who can present the scientific facts they have accumulated?
Seems to me if you are only presented with one side of the strory, after a while, it becomes all you believe because you have not been presented with any alternatives from which to make an informed decision.
Imagine being a Judge in a courtroom, but only hearing the Prosecution's side of the case. How in the world could you make an educated & informed decision as to one's guilt or innocence with only one side of the story?
Sorry, but I've heard enough evidence against global warming (along with plenty of evidence supporting it) to believe that the temperature fluctuations that occur are not caused by man, but by natural climate changes.
Just don't act like the US is doing nothing and the world will end because or the US's lack of action.
Right you are, I might have acted so before getting a bit more information on the Kyoto protocol itself.
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biggest bang for the buck would be applying already acquired technology there
The problem is you need money to do so, and the technology itself. And that's what is not given to the concerned countries.
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Sorry, but I've heard enough evidence against global warming (along with plenty of evidence supporting it) to believe that the temperature fluctuations that occur are not caused by man, but by natural climate changes.
Even so, that doesn't change the fact that we ARE polluting, we are causing damages (deforrestation, since it was named before, is one of them) and we CAN do something about it. So why not try a bit more, there is much room for improvment anyway.
Now I agree with acp. We need to reduce polution and be more efficient. I've seen where trees and other plants are incorporated into and ontop of buildings. Plants love CO2 are creat shade. Not to mention that they are a lot better to look at than asphalt. We need more green space.
The search for alternative fules has developed some small power generators, like wind generators and bio mass generation. Things that seem availalble to developing countries . Much better solution than importing oil or expensive nuclear power plants.
the US has done nothing to try to pollute less? i'm so tired of hearing this.
america has the lowest emission producing cars/trucks/vans/.... compared to other countries equalivant vehicles.
GM has studied and spent millions if not billions on how to get better gas mileage in their suv's/trucks. one great example: gm's v-8-6-4. making suv's and trucks up to 8% better fuel economy.
our gas is stictly regulated to burn cleaner
we push for nuclear power(which is much cleaner, MUCH cleaner than coal power plants or gas)
power companies pay customers to take over their hvac(heating ventilation air conditioning) unit in the summer and winter to save energy(which produces less pollution)
many major metropolian area bus transportation has switched to natural gas bus's which can produce up to 60% less co2
many counties, metro areas pay people to carpool
and on and on.......
we do nothing?
oh and the hottest selling car's in america now are either hybrids or very high mpg cars (30-40mpg)
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IMHO, the reason we haven't switched to cleaner-burning or replenishable fuels is because they just aren't available. There will have to be a consensus on what we'll switch to, because we won't find "gas" stations with 10 different types of fuels. The transition is almost not feasible, since you have to get everyone to switch to different vehicles, and get the stations to switch to a different fuel, yet keep the country moving at the same time. Then what do you tell the guy with a '65 Chevy II Nova that wants to take his car to a show and can't find gas within a hundred miles of his house?
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the US has done nothing to try to pollute less? i'm so tired of hearing this.
america has the lowest emission producing cars/trucks/vans/.... compared to other countries equalivant vehicles. last I checked europe has access to better diesel and smaller cars than we do
GM has studied and spent millions if not billions on how to get better gas mileage in their suv's/trucks. one great example: gm's v-8-6-4. making suv's and trucks up to 8% better fuel economy. You're kidding...right? 8% of 11 MPG gets you close to 12 MPG
our gas is stictly regulated to burn cleaner in california yes but in other states it can be a crapshoot
we push for nuclear power(which is much cleaner, MUCH cleaner than coal power plants or gas)Name a plant that has been built or is planned to be built in the last 25 years....I'll give you a hint it's zero and the waste is still a problem
power companies pay customers to take over their hvac(heating ventilation air conditioning) unit in the summer and winter to save energy(which produces less pollution) After 500,000 people lost power the week before last, the excessive charges that our main power company charges has come to light
many major metropolian area bus transportation has switched to natural gas bus's which can produce up to 60% less co2 true but they cut the amount of buses and public transportation here...this has increased traffic
many counties, metro areas pay people to carpool I wish Saint Louis followed that but it and other areas are still a bit on the backwater side of things
and on and on.......
we do nothing?
oh and the hottest selling car's in america now are either hybrids or very high mpg cars (30-40mpg)
To the poster above saying that global warming is a theory. Just stop. Using FoxNews talking points just stinks. Global warming has never been stated as theory, it has been publoshed and backed up by scientific fact, the mainstream media IS foxnews, the most watched tv news channel IS mainstream. The other side to global warming is people who aren't paying attention....Have any of you been to a nuclear plant clean up site? Have any of you seen a strip mine? Have any of you dealt with someone who died from asbestos poisioning?Lung Cancer? I have and all of these were man made and caused by us. At no point should we kid ourselves that we don't impact the environment.
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very nice JMJ, but you slightly missed the point, your chart is way too limited.
you need to do a little more research.
it use to be about evey 200,000 years the poles would switch, we are way past due for the poles (north and south) to swith polarity, when the poles switch strange things happen, like ice ages.
Oh, before you say, I'm fully of it. Check out the website from Canada about Geomagnetism, they are tracking the north pole movement. Yep, it moves, has always moved. It moves every day. The pole is tracking towards the true north pole.
About 30+ years ago, in mid summer, the sun at it's highest was about the 40th parallel, now in mid summer the sun is much more north, the earth's axis has changed it's tilt.
What this means, is that the sun stays longer in the northern hemisphere and heats up this part of the earth more, and, we are getting warmer. Hence Global Warming. Now, I'm not going to say that we, aren't causing some Global Warming, I'm sure all that junk we are putting into the atmosphere can't be good, and it may be contribuitng to it in some small fashion. The eruption of volcanos cause more polution that we ever put there.
So, now you ask, when are the poles going to align? That has already been predicted for us. Let me ask you, when is the end of the Mayan Calendar?
No, the world will not end, but it will change, it will be somewhat different. Will it be hot, cold, freezing (ice age), don't know, just know it will be different.
Interesting thread, interesting to see where it goes.
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Originally Posted by Kayri
IMHO, the reason we haven't switched to cleaner-burning or replenishable fuels is because they just aren't available. There will have to be a consensus on what we'll switch to, because we won't find "gas" stations with 10 different types of fuels. The transition is almost not feasible, since you have to get everyone to switch to different vehicles, and get the stations to switch to a different fuel, yet keep the country moving at the same time. Then what do you tell the guy with a '65 Chevy II Nova that wants to take his car to a show and can't find gas within a hundred miles of his house?
Don't forget the hydrogen engine. From what I've read about it, there seems to be a lot of breakthroughs being made that may soon make it a viable (and maybe even an affordable) alternative in the near future.
And, this would leave a lot of gas left to be available for the Chevy Nova. And that would be a good thing. Because it's pretty to look at, but even better to listen to. Muscle cars sound AWESOME. Don't want to take that away.... Ever!!
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