U.S. tourist kills mugger with bare hands
An American senior citizen killed an alleged mugger with his bare hands, and his traveling companions aboard a tour bus fended off two other assailants in Costa Rica. (Feb. 23)
I don't think solving problems by killing someone is heroic. I know, it is certainly hard to react the right way in such a situation, but since that veteran himself was not in danger (he was hidden in the car and then jumped out of it), he could have taken time to simply think about a disabling method, and not a killing method. If he had simply captured the bad guy by breaking his arms and his legs, it would have been ok, and one could have identified the other criminals. But this way, his colleagues and others are still going to attack innocent tourists.
I think that the veteran is a killer. He should be punished for that. No one can decide about life or death for other people. There is no proof that those attackers were going to kill them, only a slice probability. If I would attack a car, I would also take guns and knives with me to impress. By the way, robbers are not killers...
I think the duty of the veteran would have been to hide and to call the police, not to kill someone...
***Costa Rican officials interviewed the Americans, and said they wouldn't charge the U.S. tourist with any crime because he acted in self defense.
"They were in their right to defend themselves after being held up," Hernandez said. He said Segura had previous charges against him for assaults.***
The guy had a gun to her head, with other assailants w/him...it was a moment unlike anything the average 'joe' ever encounters,...the bonehead is carrying a weapon of death, and it actually sounds as if something prob broke during 'the hold' and THAT caused the asphixiation internally...the guy was on vacation, he wasn't/isnt a 'killer'..hey, you threaten harm, that same threat is mirrored...it's early, no coffee, i'm rambling..but i am sure in my heart that fellow isnt full of glee that this ended as it did. i believe that. He was working off of a survival instinct and pure adrenelin(sp)....
....it might have even happened to you...one never knows the outcome unless faced with the danger...
i also say unfortunate event...
i say hero. not killer.
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You bring a gun and by that act you are intending to kill someone. If you do not take a gun weilding assailant seriously, then you are risking your life and other's lives.
Quote:
Adams was with 12 American tourists who hired a driver to explore Costa Rica for a few hours. They were climbing out of the van to visit a Caribbean beach when three masked men ran toward them, she said. One held a gun to her head, while the other two pulled out knives.
...
Hernandez said the American, whom he refused to identify, struggled with the robber, breaking his collarbone and eventually killing him. Police identified the dead man as Warner Segura, 20. The other two assailants fled.
Afterward, the tourists drove Segura to a hospital, where he was declared dead. Sergio Lopez, a Red Cross auxiliary, examined Segura's body and said he died from asphyxiation.
...
Costa Rican officials interviewed the Americans, and said they wouldn't charge the U.S. tourist with any crime because he acted in self defense.
"They were in their right to defend themselves after being held up," Hernandez said. He said Segura had previous charges against him for assaults.
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Good for him.He is a hero.My rule is treat deadly force with deadly force.This guy just acted as any hero would have.He didn't have time to ponder the ifs,ands,or buts.When a gun is involved there is intent to do great bodily harm and you stop the threat with any means necessary.
I don't think killing anyone is good, but I do understand, that had it been me being held up, I wouldn't have thought well enough to do anything else. My only thought would have been self-defense, but I don't think killing someone is good
Sounds like an unreasonable use of force to me. Certainly a case where I would, at the very least, expect the matter to be referred to the relevant authorities to determine whether prosecution should be brought.
If it was self-defence, then an investigation will simply prove that. But no doubt the decision to take no further action is as much politically motivated as anything else.
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I don't think solving problems by killing someone is heroic. I know, it is certainly hard to react the right way in such a situation, but since that veteran himself was not in danger (he was hidden in the car and then jumped out of it), he could have taken time to simply think about a disabling method, and not a killing method. If he had simply captured the bad guy by breaking his arms and his legs, it would have been ok, and one could have identified the other criminals. But this way, his colleagues and others are still going to attack innocent tourists.
I think that the veteran is a killer. He should be punished for that. No one can decide about life or death for other people. There is no proof that those attackers were going to kill them, only a slice probability. If I would attack a car, I would also take guns and knives with me to impress. By the way, robbers are not killers...
I think the duty of the veteran would have been to hide and to call the police, not to kill someone...
You obviously are not knowledgeable of the number of people who have been robbed, kidnapped, and/or killed by this thugs in Central and South America. I think your problem is that the HERO you are calling a "killer" was identified as a veteran in the story and you are confusing his veteran status as some type of trained Rambo type of killer. The guy was 70 years old and put the robber in a head lock. The bad guy's collar bone was broken in the process and he died. Do you really think he is some kind of US Govt trained killer???
Originally Posted by Martin
Sounds like an unreasonable use of force to me. Certainly a case where I would, at the very least, expect the matter to be referred to the relevant authorities to determine whether prosecution should be brought.
If it was self-defense, then an investigation will simply prove that. But no doubt the decision to take no further action is as much politically motivated as anything else.
Unreasonable use of force? A head lock is unreasonable against thugs with a gun and knives??? Surely you jest???
You say the matter should be referred to relevant authorities and the matter investigated? Perhaps I read a different story than you did. The linked article I read quoted the Chief of Police who provided some pretty detailed information. Perhaps I'm being presumptious but I assume the police investigated since they seemed to know what happened.
I'm confused about the "politically motivated" comment, perhaps you could explain???
@diducmeb4
I agree with you totally.
I am very much a pacifist and against killing of every sort, but this guy was in his 70's and up against a guy in his 20's with a gun. I think he was entitled to use as much force as he could muster otherwise he would have been easily overcome.
You read about it in the paper and see it on tv all the time,"victim robbed and beaten to death while bystanders watched and did nothing".Thank God that some brave people have the guts to intervene and save their fellow man.I'm an ex cop and have some strong feelings on dealing with scumbags with guns that rob and hurt people.I was taught to never shoot to kill,never shoot to wound,but shoot to "stop".A double tap to center mass almost always stops the bad guys everytime.For those that say"set back and think about it and try not to hurt the bad guys to much"have never been shot at or truly had their life threatened.My last post on the subject as I don't wish to argue the point because you won't change my mind nor will I change yours.I do not wish to kill anyone but I will do what I have to do to save myself or any other innocent person.
Nothing wrong with being idealistic. The world would be very boring if we all thought alike and shared the same opinions. I just hope I'm never with him if my life if being threatened and he's the last line of defense ...
It is the same issue as an airplane hijacker. You MUST assume that the person is going to kill you (otherwise no need for a gun). When fighting for your life and/or the lives of others, it is silly to not use every skill, effort, and tactic in order to preserve those lives.
I feel no sorrow for the life of the attacker, he volunteered for it. It may well have turned out differently where even an unintentional shooting kills one of the mugging victims.
The attacker took that responsibility on himself and escalated the conflict to the use of deadly force. Better he dies than some bystander or tourist
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Interesting debate.... I don't advocate killing and I hate the way we all need to label people these days (he must either be a hero or a killer). Bottom line here though, guy carrying the gun to commit a criminal act being killed is much higher on my prefered list over good samaritan dies trying to subdue gunman.
One last thought on "carrying weapons just to scare".... I've read far too many accounts of defendants stating that they had not meant to use the weapon that they were carrying to hurt... only too scare.. and yet, due to any number of reasons, ended up hurting or killing their victims with the weapon that was "only meant to scare"....
__________________ Learn as much as you can. Do what you think is right. Don't fear losing. When down, pick yourself right back up. Do not give up. Do not give in. Keep going forward. If you can do all of that and like what you see in the mirror, you are where you want to be... and ahead of most.
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