I'm going to have a difficult time asking this question, so if it comes off as nonsense - be honest and tell me. The focus of this question is clearly christians, but if any philosophy majors want to take a stab at it, feel free.
The concept of the christian god as an all-knowing, all-powerful, benevolent being who created the universe and everything in it leaves me with a huge question: What kind of monster is this god anyway? Let me attempt to explain my problem with the concept of the christian (xian for brevity's sake)....
So before there was anything, there was god just sitting there probably pretty bored, so he decided to create a universe. And at the center of this universe (at least as far as importance goes) he creates earth and all its creatures. In the process of designing this universe, everything was created from scratch - that is everything from the law of gravity to plate techtonics. If you are a god creating the universe, the law of gravity is completely arbitrary - you needn't create such a law or a universe that adhere's to such. As absurd as you may think I am sounding right now, bear with me. Anyway, absolutely everything was being created from scratch, and an all-knowing god knew the results of everything he created. He knew that creating a universe based on the laws of physics that we all know today would create a planet earth that would have continental drift and volcanos. He knew that people would fall victim to the earth's weather and natural occurrences. He knew that drought would occurr because of the laws of nature he created. Most importantly, he knew that there would be suffering. In fact, when he created the universe, he decided to add suffering as a component. Why did he bother adding this? People have often said, "without suffering, we can't experience true joy". Well, if that relationship between suffering and joy exists, it is merely because god created that relationship. So, people suffer from the natural occurrences of the earth and nature. People also suffer at the hands of others. Some people are born just suffering. There is pain. There is suffering. These are 2 things that are completely absent from any universe that I am creating if I am a god. As far as I can tell, the mere fact that suffering and pain exist excludes the possibility of a benevolent god.
I'll leave this point at this for now. Please tell me if I'm way off here. Honestly, I'm really stumped.
However, I always come back to a more important question to me....Why anything at all, when he didn't have to create anything. Was he bored just sitting around by himself? Why did he create a universe of beings that suffer in order to live in peace someday in heaven. Why did he create any of this. Is he a sick sociopath? Why didn't he just leave nothingness the way it was - nothing?
I'm probably not being very articulate in expressing my questions. Let me be clear - this stuff baffles me. Any suggestions would be great.
Warning (and I don't mean to sound like I'm keeping the xians from answering me fully): Quoting the bible isn't going to shed any light on me unless you quote and explain some of the logical problems that I have discussed.
God didnt intend on the earth becoming all this messed up. he gave us a choice,the most powerful gift ever given..we could choose to obey him and live in the most perfect place...or fall victim to satan...knowing that eating the forbidden fruit would screw up everything that was perfect....well,adam and eve didnt make the right choice..they didnt obey God..so this is the punishment. he sent his son for a "2nd chance" at forgiveness.
so none of (the way the earth is now) is Gods fault...we cant blame our maker..we messed it up. its like a dad telling his son.."dont try to pet the neighbors dog..he will bite" and the kid trys to anyway...getting his finger bit off..the kid has to live with that mistake as his punishment for not listening to the father.
but we as humans cant judge God in a right mind cuz God is on a higher level then us,and trying to put ourselves on his level will never work..we are not "good enough" if you will..to match up with Gods thoughts and ways of doing things.
so,we had a chance..and a 2nd chance to make things right...but some people think they are better then God..and dont want to listen to his word...thus...we pay the price.
__________________
If you just 'think' about it.......
life will pass you by.
JeepfanEd
One response I always have to myself when I try to respond to questions like this is, if God created the laws that govern everything (I am referring to the laws of physics, etc.), then he also is above those laws. One of those laws he created was logic. Don't assume that God can be described by mere logic; heck, he created logic and is therefore above logic. What really matters is that God created everything, God loves everything unconditionally (including you), "sin" defines a separation between creation and God, and God sent his one dear son as an atonement for this separation (that is for those who accept this atonement). That is the core of what Christianity is about. Who God is and how he works is not the purpose of Christianity. I believe as you get closer and closer to God you come to realize that it doesn't really matter how he works, but just the fact that you are relating by means of love to your sovereign creator.
Now you ask about pain and suffering. In Genesis 3, we see a story entitled "The Fall of Man". After the initial sin (which took the form of deliberate disobedience to the clear word of God), God explains to Adam and Eve that their sin (separation from God) has introduced all kinds of suffering. God could have known that this was going to happen, and he may or may not have known it. Maybe he even chose not to know that his creation would separate itself from a loving relationship with him (God is not bound to logic...). If God already knew whether or not his creation would love him, he might as well have remained in his solitude -- I am confident that the entire universe was created to love God, not be his "thrill of the chase" where he knew the end result.
I, like you, am not very articulate and I do not stand behind these thoughts as any sort of rebuttal or argument. I am welcome to responses.
As a Christian I find your post to be a means to enlighten you But you being a non-Christian will find what I'm saying to be a little unbelievable.
When God created the earth and everything on it he did it for you.Now The the thing is he gave everyone ,you included, a "free will" so you can decide to do whatever you want.When he created Adam & Eve he told them not to mess with the tree but they didn't listen,even though they knew what was going to happen to them and everybody else for generations to come. As far as natural disasters I can't say why those things happen.But to say God is wrong for people dying that way is just a way to target the blame for things we don't understand.Everyone is given a "Time" on this earth, and if we spend that time the right way then we have nothing to fear.
Now I will ask you something,what is going to happen to you when you die? This isn't meant as a threat ,but really, do you know what is going to happened. Are you going to be re-incarnated? Go to Heaven?...Now how do you know this?
The best advice I can give you is look into it. Ask a pastor the questions you are asking here and try to prove him wrong.Now don't go to someone and argue with them and don't base your opinion on talking to just one person ,do the research.
Anyone who has tried to dis-prove the bible (the whole Bible) has came to the same conclusion, they can't.
And for what it's worth the Christian lifestyle is not such a bad way of life I , for instance, don't wake up in the morning wondering where I am and how I got there. So at the very least ,I have peace of mind.
To answer your question of why he created you and everybody else ,To be honest, I don't know. One thing I do know is I glad he did.
I don't think what I said will make you a Christian but everyone is given the chance to make a decision and ,I believe you will agree, we will reap the benefit or pay the consequences for those decisions.
your question is a timeless one. i could attempt to answer on my own, but in doing some quick searching i found this article that i think makes a good attempt at answering your question. in the interest of space, here is the link . . . http://www.carm.org/questions/whydidGodcreateus.htm
__________________
Harold Nelson, USN, ETC(SS), retired
"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." - Horace Mann :approve:
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away" - George Carlin
i don't think he uses one. but a gentleman by the screen name of roguefx created a picture of God endorsing one (i used it as a today theme). certainly looks like an Axim X5
God doesnt need a pda...duh!!
i think hes a little smarter then the rest of us..he knows all
but if he did...i bet they would have sent him the right upgrade disk the 1st time!! for free!! :)
__________________
If you just 'think' about it.......
life will pass you by.
JeepfanEd
Originally posted by jeepfaned God doesnt need a pda...duh!!
i think hes a little smarter then the rest of us..he knows all
but if he did...i bet they would have sent him the right upgrade disk the 1st time!! for free!! :)
I wonder if God can send us upgrade disks and more memory...for our heads...interesting...
I heard a pastor who was asked the question of how/why would a God let bad things happen. We just recently had a cop killed by a known gang member who the judge gave one to many free passes. The pastors answer was that God didn't say bad things wouldn't happen, he just said that he would be there to help us through them.
Oh and just to round out my story the gang member was shot and killed on site by another officer, tried and convicted the efficient way.
Kark_1999, (x for brevity's sake), asks some relevant questions about God. I'd suggest that if x is interested in knowing why God does what He does, x should let God tell him. In other words, read the Bible! Of course, you stated that one shouldn't quote the Bible . . . Your answers are quite easy, yet, you should try reading the Bible yourself rather than seek eternal advice from people you don't really know. It's more than simple logic. Be careful, God's Word has a way of changing you if you actually read it! God bless you.
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