MyUncle

Xyress,

This is a common misconception! I have been guilty of it and have learned about it here over this last year.....with your help. Please try not to be so condiscending about it. Being that you are probably more moral than most Christians are, you should try to be a little nicer about it and gently correct them. Being so harsh does not reflect well on you!

Xyress

'Twas but a slight jab :p

But hey - it's a bit over my head in many areas, so it would have to be over Null's head since he thinks that evolution explains that we came from rocks!

__________________
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"

- Albert Einstein

MyUncle

not even a Jab really but a mere nudge. It still reflects more upon you than he just the same. Surely your better than that.

Null

Quote:

Originally posted by Xyress If a human fossil was to be found in the same rock layer as a dinosaur fossil, that would disprove the current theory of evolution. Introduction to Evolutionary Biology

But this has already been found, they even found dinsaur footprints with human footprints in a riverbed.

And there are two different versions of evolution, micro and macro. Micro evolution is small changes like dogs being bred to have long hair, this form is scientifically proven and obviously possible. While Macro evolution describes big changes such
as a dinosaur becoming a bird, this has not ever been witnessed or proven to be possible.

Xyress

Quote:

Originally posted by Null But this has already been found, they even found dinsaur footprints with human footprints in a riverbed.

Dinosaur and Human footprints claim

Quote:

Originally posted by Null And there are two different versions of evolution, micro and macro. Micro evolution is small changes like dogs being bred to have long hair, this form is scientifically proven and obviously possible. While Macro evolution describes big changes such as a dinosaur becoming a bird, this has not ever been witnessed or proven to be possible.

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution

Any other questions/problems with evolution?

__________________
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"

- Albert Einstein

The Barbarian

An interesting side note is the the "man tracks" foolishness was debunked by a group of Young Earth creationists. There are honest ones.

MyUncle

Laughable!

Everyone who agrees with you is honest and everyone who dissagrees is dishonest. So much for being open minded. LOL

MAYBE....we are both looking for the same thing and SOME people are not as far down the road as you and some people are further down the road than you? Just maybe. And maybe you will never know because if they disagree with you "they are liars", Ya think?

People on both sides of this issue are looking for the truth in it, and both sides have made erroneous claims. We should probably be honest enough, at least with ourselves, to remain open minded but still parse it out for ourselves.....with out the name calling.

Sure there are some people that are going to STUCK on a view regardless of the FACTS. It doesn't make your arguments any stronger, or give you any more credibility to call them names.

Just take solice in the facts, and that you have a reasoned position and not just rhetorical banter. It reflects poorly on YOU when you name call. I have been guilty of this myself in moments of weakness, and I'm sorry for that.

This is still the truth. There are valid points on both sides of this issue but NO EMPIRICAL evidence as of yet. Old Earth, Young Earth, the jury is still out. Neither side yet can claim PROOF yet. Evidence yes, PROOF no.

Xyress

I'm sorry, but what evidence is there of a young Earth? Or of creationism? The only thing that keeps the possibility of a young earth or creationism alive is that "God can do all things" and He has been playing tricks on us with all of the evidence that we have found. That's pretty flimsy - unless you know of other evidence?

It does seem that both sides are not open-minded, but here's the difference. Evolutionists can accept new information and adapt their theory. Creationists have a book that is supposed to be the Word of God ... so any new evidence that disagrees with their theory must be rationalized away or their house of cards falls down.

Anyone that comes up with a credible theory that is more solid than evolution to explain the nature of the animal kingdom based on the evidence would win the Nobel prize.

__________________
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"

- Albert Einstein

MyUncle

I agree the old earth argument has the stronger case....by far. I disagree that the bible has been contradicted by this. Some interpretations of the scripture have been contradicted, others appear to be inconsistant. There are not yet any CLEAR biblical contradictions with KNOWN FACTS. We will learn more as we grow our knowledge base. I also do not feel I am clinging to a hopeless cause. I firmly believe the facts will eventually bear out favorably for the Bible account. I have many other reasons to have confidence in my G-d. None, however, that I can offer you as empirical evidence to you....I am truly sorry for that.

We'll see, my friend, we'll see!

Xyress

It makes me glad that you can admit there's more evidence of an old Earth. You seem to be open to looking at the scientific evidence and coming to your own conclusion which is great.

If you frequent talk.origins, you'll find that there are many people there who are able to reconcile belief in Christianity with evolution. Though, I think that all of these people have to admit that Genesis must not be taken literally - because it does contradict evolution through common descent.

God may have made the first organisms and guided evolution - but Genesis states that he made man in his image first. That is the main contradiction.

As for other parts that are contradicted by current knowledge - the global flood is a biggie, but I don't want to get back into that one here. Just wanted to point out that there are parts of the Bible that are in conflict with scientific findings.

__________________
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"

- Albert Einstein

MyUncle

Quote:

Just wanted to point out that there are parts of the Bible that are in conflict with scientific findings.

Based upon what we know today, which is not to say our knowledge and understanding of what we KNOW is anywhere near complete. We WILL see as it All unfolds. I think you are well aware that I have monitored and asked questions at the talk.origins site too.

Xyress

Quote:

Originally posted by MyUncle Based upon what we know today, which is not to say our knowledge and understanding of what we KNOW is anywhere near complete. We WILL see as it All unfolds. I think you are well aware that I have monitored and asked questions at the talk.origins site too.

Yes, we can only base our current knowledge on what we know today. We could find out that life was seeded by alien visitors. As sci-fi as that sounds, I don't think we can dismiss that possibility just yet. A meteorite could have crash-landed onto the Earth millions of years ago that sparked life - who knows? I'm not so near-sighted to claim that we have all of the answers now ... quite the opposite. Though, I think Isaac Asimov's essay The Relativity of Wrong does a nice job of expressing the nature of our current theories of evolution.

I don't think that it is a certainty that we will ever know for certain whether we evolved or were created in an instant. Remember, that's only a certainty if you believe in an afterlife as described in the Bible.

But I digress ... Null, do you have any other questions about evolution that we could help with? I was afraid that you might do a "hit and run" that is so popular on talk.origins and we'd never see you again. I'm curious to know how your studies on evolution are progressing. Are there any others out there that don't believe in evolution? Any particular problems with it?

We're here to help :D

__________________
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"

- Albert Einstein

Xyress

Well, looks like I was right. Null has run away. That's usually the best option if you don't want to let the facts affect your beliefs.

Does anyone else have any questions about evolution?

__________________
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"

- Albert Einstein

Null

Quote:

Originally posted by Xyress Well, looks like I was right. Null has run away. That's usually the best option if you don't want to let the facts affect your beliefs. Does anyone else have any questions about evolution?

Oh look, what do you know, maybe I don't live my life on a forum...

Xyress

Quote:

Originally posted by Null Oh look, what do you know, maybe I don't live my life on a forum...

Ah well, what else am I gonna do? Do you have any other suggestions for activities while I have down time at work? Of course, I am addicted - I realize this. I choose to spend some of my free time engaged in intellectual debates. How about you?

So, you seemed pretty interested for a little while. Have you been spending all of this time reading up on the links I posted? Does it make more sense now?

__________________
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death"

- Albert Einstein