Where is USB 2.0 in the PDA world? It's been around for a very long time, backward compatible with USB 1.x, and much faster. Pretty much any system board or computer being purchased today and in the last long while comes with USB 2.0. I find when transferring large files or doing backups it's a real pain to have to wait such a long time.
It would be neat if a standard interface was incorporated into PDAs (and other devices) from which you could purchase a FireWire, USB 1.x, USB 2.0, serial, parallel, 10/100/1000 network (via tiny web host chip), etc. interface as you wish and the internal interface device could have the capability of communicating say, at gigabit speeds for future compatibility. The external synch "cable" would then have a tiny "converter" circuit that would translate the signal into whatever format specific to that cable.
This would be nice for any external devices including printers, PDAs, digital cameras, scanners (probably wouldn't want serial here), cell phones, card readers, etc.
USB 2.0 will most likely be seen in the next generation of PPC's. it will be interesting to see how much of a speed increase there is for transferring info to a PPC. even with a USB 2.0 external flash memory adapter you don't see much increase in speed transferring to a memory card.
you won't ever see a standard interface on PDA's from one manufacturer to the next. it would not be beneficial to their sales if they did. they want to make sure you can only buy their accessories.
Originally posted by jpmarth USB 2.0 will most likely be seen in the next generation of PPC's. it will be interesting to see how much of a speed increase there is for transferring info to a PPC. even with a USB 2.0 external flash memory adapter you don't see much increase in speed transferring to a memory card.
Ah, I strongly but politely disagree. First of all, USB 1.x has a technical maximum transfer rate of 12Mbit/s, which translates to 1.5MB/s. So to transfer a 256MB file you'd be looking at a minimum of 171 seconds, or almost 3 minutes. USB 2.0 has a technical maximum of 480Mbit/s, or 60MB/s. A 256MB file then would take a minimum of 4 seconds. That's over 40X faster.
Then you throw in other factors like PDA/interface software overhead and the fact that many smaller files take longer to transfer than one large file with the same volume of data.
My ActiveSync (before I upgraded to 3.7.1 anyway) was calving out when I was copying a 33MB backup file from the memory card to my computer, and taking a very long time to do it while it was not calved. When I put my SD card in my USB 2.0 card reader, it's a whole lot faster.
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you won't ever see a standard interface on PDA's from one manufacturer to the next. it would not be beneficial to their sales if they did. they want to make sure you can only buy their accessories.
Not necessarily true. You're talking about the physical connecting jack, and I agree with you that we MAY not see that (we do see such standards with USB, RJ-45, FireWire, RS-232, etc.). But I'm talking about an internal circuit, much like an Intel chipset, that is the main interface circuit.
Then externally, sure, Dell would have a USB 2.0 cable, a FireWire cable, and a network cable, all with little "converter" circuits built-in. And sure, Dell would have their special external jack and plug, and so forth. But the actual data interface electronics internally could be standardized.
Why can't they make a USB port that will accept one of those flash memory sticks or thumbsticks(or what ever they are called)?
It would make tranferring of data extremely easy plugging into one machine to the next.
I think PDAs should have a built-in USB port. Now obviously they wouldn't be able to power devices like an onboard computer's USB device can, but they could be used for low-power devices such as USB keys, self-powered USB hubs (for external mice, keyboards, cameras, you name it).
Imagine being able to go out and purchase a generic USB cable and synch with your PC!
Its called a toshiba e750. If you buy the add on pack (on e-bay they start at around $20-30) you have a usb 1.1 and a vga port, as well as an sd slot and a cf slot on the device its self. And, what do you know, the e740 has linux! I think i found my next pda. Even without linux tho, its a nice pda, im lookin at getting one soon (but ill still stay here)
-g
EDIT: Or you could grab one of those nifty usb-cf cards, run a search for em on this site, you will find one with TWO USB ports, for less than $100 (I think)
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Call me a critic, but it'll never happen... a PDA with built-in USB is like Windows XP with built-in compatibility for Linux apps. It's stealing the manufacturer's profits. Look at it this way: A simple, relatively compact USB keyboard costs $10-25. How much money does that make Dell/Compaq/Toshiba/Sony etc...? that's right, $0. A Dell foldable keyboard (same crap basically) costs ~$100. How much does THAT make Dell? Around $90. See a difference?
Another example: an XBOX S gamepad, which is my current gamepad, costs a mere $30, for which you get a quality built (I'll admit that Microsoft did a good job here) and very comfortable gamepad. With around 15 analog buttons, a d-pad, 2 analog triggers, and 2 mini-joysticks. Great deal (I love mine). What do your hard-earned $35 get you with proprietary connectors? a crappy 4-button + d-pad sub-SNES piece of crap. Not even one for the Axim, only Compaq. great value, eh?
The thing is (if you're still reading), that things like PDAs, game consoles, cell phones, etc... are sold for little or no profit. The real profits are raked in from accessories and software. As a matter of fact I believe MSOFT is LOSING money on the 'box... no way you can kick together a can with a 700MHz processor, 8GB hdd, mobo, GeForce 3 gfx and a DVD-rom (not to mention other parts, casing, boxes, manuals, demo-discs, shipping to retailers and retail profits, as well as advertising) for $150. No way in hell. They are losing money on it (paying around $165 last I read), but they make the $$ back on accessories. The same with Dell - they overcharge for acc's and undercharge for the units.
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Originally posted by epsilonx Ah, I strongly but politely disagree. First of all, USB 1.x has a technical maximum transfer rate of 12Mbit/s, which translates to 1.5MB/s. So to transfer a 256MB file you'd be looking at a minimum of 171 seconds, or almost 3 minutes. USB 2.0 has a technical maximum of 480Mbit/s, or 60MB/s. A 256MB file then would take a minimum of 4 seconds. That's over 40X faster.
I think what jpmarth was referring to is that most solid state memory cards cannot handle anywhere near 480Mbit/s transfer rate. While you might see some speed increase when transferring to RAM, you'd likely see very little increase when transferring to a storage card because of the speed constraint on the card itself. And since most PPCs only have 64MB (or less) RAM, the files will be small enough that a speed increase when transferring to RAM won't be that significant of a time-saver anyhow.
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The biggest obstacle to functional USB on Axim (either through CF or SDIO) is drivers.
Windows XP has a bzillion builtin drivers for various devices, so that when you hook something up to a USB port, the system can identify what it is and how to handle it.
The hardware to make a SDIO to USB connector would be useless unless someone started writing drivers for lots of different devices. To start with, people would want a "external hard drive" driver that was smart enough to recognize the size and type of drive, handle transfer of data to and from the device, etc.
I am an applications programmer, who writes programs hin high level languages to handle database querys, etc. I have NO IDEA how hard it would be to write a driver on the axim such that, when you hooked up a hard drive to a USB connector dangling off the SDIO port, the Axim would go BING, create a folder called "External Hard Drive", etc.
Once that was written, someone would have to write a driver to recognize an external keyboard, an external monitor, an external ethernet connector, and have them be generic enough to work with the various devices that are already in existence in the world. Who would pay this person?
Either that, or hardware manufacturers would have to perceive the value of making a USB device and developing a USB driver for the PPC, and compare that to the cost of just making a device that connects directly to SDIO or to the bottom of the PPC, and justify a dollar savings to do so.
I'd love a USB connection for my Axim X3i, but without the drivers to hook up my USB devices, they wouldn't work.
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Axim X3i
standard case + Deluxe Dell case
extra standard battery
extra 1800MaH battery
Styli with pen built in
Dell Folding Keyboard
D-Link Wireless Router
WL-330 Portable WAP (sweet!)
256mb Lexar 32x SD Card
TextMaker
Heh....guess this thread has shifted from USB2.0 support to sync, to wanting USB hosting abilities on the Axim itself. :p
Anyhow, in response to ShadowCat's post....
There are already PPC USB drivers for HID (mouse, keyboard), Mass Storage (Hard Drives, Thumbdrives), and Printers. At least, these are the PPC USB drivers that are supposed to ship with the upcoming Twin Paradox USB CompactFlash card for PPCs. While this won't work with the X3 (no CF slot), it shows that the interest is already out there for USB PPC drivers.
__________________ Jordan M. Wigley
Aximsite.com
Email: jordan AT aximsite.com
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Originally posted by epsilonx I think PDAs should have a built-in USB port. Now obviously they wouldn't be able to power devices like an onboard computer's USB device can, but they could be used for low-power devices such as USB keys, self-powered USB hubs (for external mice, keyboards, cameras, you name it).
Imagine being able to go out and purchase a generic USB cable and synch with your PC!
There is a PDA with USB. It's call something like Mio from Mitec. The whole selling point of that PDA is to hook up USB BarCode Scanner.
...and now, watch for it on Windows Mobile 5.0 devices. USB support. Sweet. Let's just hope that the basic interface to the computer is now USB 2.0. See, it all comes around. :)
All good info got me thinking about my Desktop PC. I call it Frankenstein- been adding new body parts rather than buying a new computere. The folks at CompUSA sure like to see me in the store! :-)
Anyway, can I take out the USB ports in Frankenstein and put in the latest 2.0 type? That may help when I move DVD movies from my hard drive into my Axim x30. Let me know, thanks. I am pretty sure I have the slower USB now.
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Axims (or any PDAs) with USB 2.0?
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