In the beginning this thread was created based on a newstory in Florida, whereas uninvited and unsecured "WIFI" ACCESS is a crime. But, realistically another thread was created through it. I mean many, if not most, of the posts here are directed towards "what criminal activities could happen IF your bandwidth gets hijacked". Basically, WHO is the CRIMINAL? Well based on many of yours and my own posts the CRIMINAL is the one who seeks to either use BANDWIDTH to commit crimes "SUCH AS" KIDDIE PORN and HACKING!
You certainly don't hear much from those who consider "hacking" a good thing anymore. Just 2 cents worth.
Finally, we need to search out those who are really terrorists in our "online" lives. AKA; Hackers, Identity thieves, and anyone else else who seeks to disrupt the use of OUR internet by their own standards.
Yeah, put ALL HACKERS in JAIL FOR A LONG TIME! If they are WAR DRIVERS, or if they are sitting in their bedroom on a desktop. PUT EM IN JAIL!
I must be out of the loop because I only heard of this "war driving" thing very recently. My fist comment to anyone who does this regularly would be to get a paper route, etc., to pay for your own internet service. Accessing the internet on someone else's open network is fairly harmless I suppose, but I wonder how many of the "benign" war drivers are in fact rooting around in folders that the owner is sharing on his network? I wonder also how many have hacker tools somewhere on their computers. Hacking something like WEP would be hard to resist, and I know also that MAC addresses can be spoofed.
My old router doesn't allow me to disable SSID broadcasting, but I have MAc filtering enabled and use WEP encryption (a joke, I know). I keep my important, confidential stuff on a computer upstairs that is locked down with nothing shared.
Maybe I should change my SSID to something like SLIT_UR_TIRES to deter folks like the fellow in the news story.
It poses several very key questions that face the law makers, as well as the hardware manufacturers of our wireless products.
In my opinion - any unsecured access point (and all unsecured services attached to that network) _SHOULD_ be considered public. I'm no arguing whether people should be smart enough or not to enable Wep - but bottom line is that until there is a standard in place that allows for easy identification of 'Public' and 'Private' hotspots I believe that the law will have a difficult time prosecuting individuals for offenses.
There are key problems with technology and society today. Many people setup wireless hotspots to intentionally create a friendly and free way for people to access the internet when they are within range of that signal. Some people setup wireless for their own personal convienence and have no idea that their neighbors, or strangers on the street can even access their hotspot (read Ignorance <-- Not mean as a negative - just a fact). I believe many of the analogies in this thread (such as leaving your doors unlocked) are not truly in line with they type of situation that we are discussing either. Someone walking into my house and taking something is completely different from pulling a few Mb of data off my internet connection.
Until those responsible for designing the hardware/firmware and those in charge of creating standards consider these type of issues, both legal and societal then there will always be this debate. Ultimately I believe the law will end up siding with the person accessing the network as long at the actions aren't harmful to the wireless owner's network/data/equipment.
If you want to debate a question (and consider things like ignorance etc.) consider this. At my home there are 3 SSID's that are usable other than mine. All of the 3 are tied to high speed cable or DSL internet. I have on several occasions when using my laptop inadvertently connected to their networks and surfed for hours without even knowing it. Same with my x50v. Sometimes it even causes me problems as it appears that at least one of the network users puts their cable modem in suspend when they aren't using their connection leading me to a dead wireless connection.
Am I a theif? Maybe so. . . Should I be charged with and convicted of a Felony that would result in me not being able to keep my current job, or get a job in my profession for the next 10 years? I would certianly hope not.
Reform of the current laws, and reform of the current technologies will ultimately be the only way to sort this out. Too much grey area, combined with technologies that simply are 'user friendly' for the average user have led us to this point. It's up to the consumer to demand a way for the public to tell the difference between a public access point and a private access point regardless of the security level.
Oh - by the way - my SSID? MOW_MY_GRASS (Wep Enabled) - and nobody has mowed it yet :(
It poses several very key questions that face the law makers, as well as the hardware manufacturers of our wireless products.
In my opinion - any unsecured access point (and all unsecured services attached to that network) _SHOULD_ be considered public. I'm no arguing whether people should be smart enough or not to enable Wep - but bottom line is that until there is a standard in place that allows for easy identification of 'Public' and 'Private' hotspots I believe that the law will have a difficult time prosecuting individuals for offenses.
There are key problems with technology and society today. Many people setup wireless hotspots to intentionally create a friendly and free way for people to access the internet when they are within range of that signal. Some people setup wireless for their own personal convienence and have no idea that their neighbors, or strangers on the street can even access their hotspot (read Ignorance <-- Not mean as a negative - just a fact). I believe many of the analogies in this thread (such as leaving your doors unlocked) are not truly in line with they type of situation that we are discussing either. Someone walking into my house and taking something is completely different from pulling a few Mb of data off my internet connection.
Until those responsible for designing the hardware/firmware and those in charge of creating standards consider these type of issues, both legal and societal then there will always be this debate. Ultimately I believe the law will end up siding with the person accessing the network as long at the actions aren't harmful to the wireless owner's network/data/equipment.
If you want to debate a question (and consider things like ignorance etc.) consider this. At my home there are 3 SSID's that are usable other than mine. All of the 3 are tied to high speed cable or DSL internet. I have on several occasions when using my laptop inadvertently connected to their networks and surfed for hours without even knowing it. Same with my x50v. Sometimes it even causes me problems as it appears that at least one of the network users puts their cable modem in suspend when they aren't using their connection leading me to a dead wireless connection.
Am I a theif? Maybe so. . . Should I be charged with and convicted of a Felony that would result in me not being able to keep my current job, or get a job in my profession for the next 10 years? I would certianly hope not.
Reform of the current laws, and reform of the current technologies will ultimately be the only way to sort this out. Too much grey area, combined with technologies that simply are 'user friendly' for the average user have led us to this point. It's up to the consumer to demand a way for the public to tell the difference between a public access point and a private access point regardless of the security level.
Oh - by the way - my SSID? MOW_MY_GRASS (Wep Enabled) - and nobody has mowed it yet :(
Just my 0.02 worth (well, maybe a bit more).
AA
Objective, Articulate, Inviting(LOL), Insightful and intelligent. A GREAT POST! Thank you.
Well I have been following this thread for a while, but have resisted posting. With that said I think I will chime in and make a few points.
1. To MayhemPlz, I am not sure you are breaking the law, but you are breaking your broadband (cable or DSL) agreement. Many of us accept these without looking at them. It states in most if not all, that you are not allowed to share your connection with someone not part of your household.
2. To the guy that said New Hampshire was making it easy. Sorry, but the laws covering this are federal laws. They can also legalize pot, but as we all know that did not fly when California did it.
3. Is it legal or not to use unsecured wireless connection. This is a big gray area. It all depends on which side has the better lawyers I believe. It has also been muddied by the courts. When I started in Networking (I maintain my company's Cisco products), almost everyone had "Welcome" screens on their Cisco routers. Then a hacker argued in court that the company had invited him in, because of the "Welcome" screen and won. No one has "Welcome" screens anymore. Instead almost everyone has big legal messages in the place of the "Welcome" screen. Connecting to unsecured wireless is clearly illegal if you check the laws. The problem is some courts have decided that unsecure wireless is like having the old "Welcome" screens. (Oh, did I forget to state I hate lawyers!) Until the Supreme Court weighs in on this, you may or may not get in trouble for using unsecured wireless without permission.
4. What has been decided in court is your liability for your unsecured wireless connection. If someone uses your connection for something illegal, hacking, etc., then you can be held criminally and financially liable. They equate this to the leaving the keys in the car while you run in and get a cup of coffee. Yes, the guy that steals your car has broken the law, but the court will also nail you for being ciminally negligent. Once they find you negligent, then they can make you pay for anything the guy who stole your car can not. They are also not going to accept "I did not know." If you want to run your wireless unsecured, then by all means do it, but do not whine here when you get slapped with a lawsuit.
On stealing an open wifi signal for light web usage and no hacking:
Legally, I don't care. I break the law every day by driving over the speed limit. Getting caught speeding concerns me 1,000,000X more than getting indicted for theft of service given the minor mooching that I may occasionally do.
I can't think of any other laws that I don't follow.
Ethically, I don't care as well. As long as bandwidth is not abused and the mooching is done discreetly (unlike the dumb St. Petersburg guy), it doesn't harm anyone. That should be the litmus test for ethical issues: How much real harm does it cause? For casual and occasional mooching, no one is harmed or even inconvenienced. In fact, given that it benefits one person, it is ethically a good thing.
Taking time during business hours to make personal calls or to check the Aximsite forums is ethically a bigger offense, because you are stealing company resources. I notice many of the holier-than-thou preachy posts were made on company time. Hypocrites.
On stealing an open wifi signal for light web usage and no hacking:
Legally, I don't care. I break the law every day by driving over the speed limit. Getting caught speeding concerns me 1,000,000X more than getting indicted for theft of service given the minor mooching that I may occasionally do.
Ethically, I don't care as well. As long as bandwidth is not abused and the mooching is done discreetly (unlike the dumb St. Petersburg guy), it doesn't harm anyone. That should be the litmus test for ethical issues: How much real harm does it cause?
Taking time during business hours to make personal calls or to check the Aximsite forums is ethically a bigger offense, because you are stealing company resources. I notice many of the holier-than-thou preachy posts were made on company time. Hypocrites.
Good point! You will also notice that I do not have posts during business hours. The few that I have had are on days off or when I worked 2:00am to 10:30am for a network outage.
Here is my wifi story: I got my x30m on June 11th (my birthday :approve: ) never in my whole life tried wifi gadgets, so the day I brought my axim home I saw all the functions including the wifi. Surprise!!! My x30 connected to a network, my first impression was, NO WAY!!! But then I was wondering were the signal comes from. I live in front of a school and next to a computer spare part store, but I’m still not sure were it comes from. Now here is the issue, the best place “inside my house” were the signal got strength is “inside my bedroom” so what I’m suppose to do, ask to all my neighborhood “are you the one who share internet with me? Dah! The signal comes right straight to my own bedroom, and I’m not doing anything that hurts his computer or something else. So I guess I’ll keep on using my little gift till the day it gets encrypted. :hide:
There is a major flaw in your argument..... sombody had to HACK the cards to get it to work and the users KNEW that they were hacked cards.
I did not HACK my X50..made no mods to my laptop. If the guy was sitting out there with some software trying to crack the encription key then HELL YES slap his rear in jail.
Just like if I am walking outside your house...you have the window open and the TV on facing the window. If I stand on the sidewalk and watch your TV I am not breaking any law. the cops would tell you to close your drapes! Now if I walked across your yard... opened your window and moved your drapes back... THEN I am breaking the law and should be locked up.
And I DID share my access at one point untill one of my neighbors got a nasty trojan and he was sending out spam thru my connection. Now, when I saw this happening, I did not call the cops... I simply turned on WEP, just like anybody else can do.
Run a secure vpn network for my lan then allow others to surf the web for free. Since my apartment is closest to the pool I have a great chance to share my internet connection with my neighbors.
One may ask what if they break laws while connected to your internet connection? Yes I could get into alot of trouble; however, I pass the buck on by running ethereal and capturing packets MAC Addresses and monotoring what is sent and recieved by my access point. I have the option to block mac addresses or deney ports for limited internet capabilites.
If you want to stay within every line of the law and you have an WiFi access point you need to registar with the FCC for broacasting rights.
P.S. It is fun digging through my neigbors WiFi trash.
If he wasnt using it for malicious purposes and wasnt slowing down the other guys network, who cares?
Forget huge philsophical debates on what you own or don't. Guess what, you left your network open, people are going to use it. Its not like leaving you door unlocked, there is no intrusion. Its not like leaving a fridge outside (strange example) and having someone walk up and take something out; you lose NOTHING. If you were not smart enough to change your default settings, then you asked for someone to borrow it, sorry. NO HARM WAS DONE.
If you want to stay within every line of the law and you have an WiFi access point you need to registar with the FCC for broacasting rights.
This is not true. The 2.4 GHz is one bands regulated by the unlicensed spread spectrum rule. Individuals do not need licenses for broadcasting in this bandwidth as long as the devices operate according to certain technical specifications.
__________________ -Ike-
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Is this illegal? Is this open WiFi putting the drug store's info at risk? If it is, I'll call them.?
I do not know at all the laws around this but, is it illegal to walk into someone else house if the door is unlocked? You still open the door, just as you still CONNECTED to the wifi, what about if someone's car door is open, or wide open, can I get in? ;)
Anyhow yeah I am curious too, in fact I see more and more now "locking" their wifi's, can you imagine though the point to which this could be abused by those who would want to with emails/calls over voip/skype you name it....just think of today's date and you might understand what I mean. Can you imagine how untraceble such activity could go? Or how easy a innocent person could become "guilty" cause their internet connection was used to....whatever...
I don't know if this was said yet (didn't read through all 9 pages), but 'free' is a relevent term, especially at a place of business. It is usually implied that you will use their service (free WiFi in this case) after you buy a good from them.
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Here is my wifi story: I got my x30m on June 11th (my birthday :approve: ) never in my whole life tried wifi gadgets, so the day I brought my axim home I saw all the functions including the wifi. Surprise!!! My x30 connected to a network, my first impression was, NO WAY!!! But then I was wondering were the signal comes from. I live in front of a school and next to a computer spare part store, but I’m still not sure were it comes from. Now here is the issue, the best place “inside my house” were the signal got strength is “inside my bedroom” so what I’m suppose to do, ask to all my neighborhood “are you the one who share internet with me? Dah! The signal comes right straight to my own bedroom, and I’m not doing anything that hurts his computer or something else. So I guess I’ll keep on using my little gift till the day it gets encrypted. :hide: 
