Dell (finally) admits to screwing up WM2003 - Page 4

polaris2k3 · 07-19-03, 05:58 PM

I think their customer service is one of Dells main selling points, they train them quite well and they at least sound like they know what they're talking about half the time.
Another thing is their replacement and repair policy, got something that doesn't work? Send it back to use and we'll send you a new one, no questions asked. My roomate brought a computer from Dell a few years ago, and the Samsung(or was it a Hitachi one) kept burning out when he pauses DVDs, all he had to do was call up Dell and send it back, couple days later he would get a new one, he did this for like 3 times I believe. I think alot of people here has sent in there Axims for replacement too and had very little trouble doing so.

Kardinal · 07-20-03, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sracer
The big unanswered question, IMO, is "How did Dell NOT know of the problems with the Axim Advanced w/WM2003 prior to shipping?!"

My opinion of Dell hinges on the answer to that question.

There is a LOT that goes on behind the scenes to which we as consumers are not privileged. The best example I can give is one from EverQuest, about how a user can see an issue that a manufacturer NEVER sees.

" The classic example is EQ Alchemy, for more than a year it was broken, for more than a year every player knew it was impossible to advance in the skill because a key recipe could not be successfully completed, for more than a year Verant was convinced that the reports they were getting of it being broken were bogus.

How could that happen? It turned out that there were two items in the game with identical names. One of them could be used for the recipe, one could not. The one that could not was the only one that actually available to the players. When Verant's internal QA tested it, they looked up the item numbers listed in the recipe, created it, and counted it as a false report and closed it. This happened repeatedly for a year. That says what happened, but not why."

I cannot tell you how it is that Dell missed it. But what I reprinted above is an example of how something which is obvious to the end user community can innocently slip by the manufacturers.

We did it with my work this weekend. We tested the results of our migrations backwards forwards and sideways. But we failed to do it with USER accounts instead of ADMINISTRATOR accounts, so some functions, which we never thought could be permissions related, didn't work Monday morning.

Stuff happens. I certainly agree that Dell is not blameless. At best, their testing methodology is faulty and needs to be improved. But they're a company whose financial compensation is DIRECTLY tied to making customers happy. They *DO* care about getting repeat business. Let's not read in *TOO* much to their actions.

07-20-03, 01:27 AM

I was hesitant to purchase the upgrade because I feared that there would be some sort of problem with it when it first came out. Now that Dell has admitted that there was some sort of problem and is or is planning to make the necessary corrections to the upgrade, which makes me more feel better about the whole thing in a strange way - although I understand the irritation that one would feel if you already made the upgrade or purchase a new Axim with the new OS installed.
Do you think that it will be safe to do the upgrade soon or do you think that there are going to be more problems with the upgrade yet to be admitted to and fixed? And just to clarify, ”performance issue” means slowness – and there do not seem to be any other glaring problems, is that right?

ravager · 07-20-03, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ender58074
I have dealt with HP customer support, and the experience was much, much better.

Well count yourself lucky. I had an Ipaq 3835 that would expire the battery in less than 24 hours, with display off, all processes ended, and the IR turned off. Totally useless for my intended purposes in the Air Force. I called tech support and he told me this was normal. Really? I called him on it and he had me ship the unit back to the service location, where they did a test, waved their holy hand over the top of it, and sent it back untouched. It was obviously a battery issue, and Hpaq ignored me. That experience exasperated me, and I resolved to not buy another Ipaq.

Rav

ender58074 · 07-20-03, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kardinal
It is a fallacy to conclude on the basis of one or even three or four experiences with technical support, the overall quality of support given by a company.

There is a LOT that goes on behind the scenes to which we as consumers are not privileged.

Stuff happens. I certainly agree that Dell is not blameless. At best, their testing methodology is faulty and needs to be improved. But they're a company whose financial compensation is DIRECTLY tied to making customers happy. They *DO* care about getting repeat business. Let's not read in *TOO* much to their actions.

I understand what you are saying, and I can partially agree with you, but there's only so far I'm willing to go to excuse a company for shoddy practices. Regarding my previous post, and your reply, whether or not it is a "fallacy" to place an expectation of support on the basis of a few encounters with support (which, in my case, has been several encounters with Dell, and HP), all consumers have to base action on is how they themselves are treated. We've all seen ego bloat companies and then destroy them, and dealing with Dell, which on the past several occasions has involved speaking to someone with the technical know-how of a Radio Shack employee, stands in stark contrast to my previous experiences with Hewlett-Packard.

If I call Dell 4 times, and each time results in frustration for me at the hands of an incompetent, then that is a %100 failure rate for Dell. How could I not judge the overall quality of support given by a company based on my own experience? In my logic, going back to a company wherein my expectations of quality have been prefaced by 4 examples of failure would be a "fallacy" in and of itself.

The point is, don't assume that because someone chooses to hold Dell accountable that they're illogically basing that conclusion on one or two experiences. Dell should know, as anyone in business should, that first impressions are vitally important, as are continuing impressions. Your own experience with the company you work for doesn't sound too relevant to me, maybe I'm wrong - but I refuse to sit around and allow a company to roll over me with the "understanding" that big companies take a long time to adjust course, or that this is somehow just a fact of life.

07-20-03, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ender58074

If I call Dell 4 times, and each time results in frustration for me at the hands of an incompetent, then that is a %100 failure rate for Dell.

I found your problem! Bad luck! lol.....
well, all of my experiences have been good exept once.
And you are giving hp to much credit, they arent perfect you know.:D

You have only seen the good side of hp.
And for the most part.........i have had ok service with dell.

They both have there bad points, but why are we talking? this is pointless talk...............opps, i better stop being hypocritical..

:D

ender58074 · 07-20-03, 09:53 AM

Yeah, you're right.

I definitely feel a bit passionate about it, especially lately.

Can't describe how robbed I felt though when I went down to Best Buy and compared the Ax to the 2215. The difference just about left me with my mouth hanging open. My wife and I have had Dell computers before, still have one that she got in 1995 that chugs along like a champ, but I ended up being so disappointed this time around that I just didn't even want to hang on to the Axim anymore. Especially not since I bought a 2215...I can't justify at all having one for each hand now, can I? :)

07-20-03, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kardinal - There is a LOT that goes on behind the scenes to which we as consumers are not privileged. The best example I can give is one from EverQuest, about how a user can see an issue that a manufacturer NEVER sees.

Sure! I understand that (Especially working for a large corporation in the industry myself).

Quote:

Originally posted by Kardinal -
I cannot tell you how it is that Dell missed it. But what I reprinted above is an example of how something which is obvious to the end user community can innocently slip by the manufacturers.

We did it with my work this weekend. We tested the results of our migrations backwards forwards and sideways. But we failed to do it with USER accounts instead of ADMINISTRATOR accounts, so some functions, which we never thought could be permissions related, didn't work Monday morning.

Stuff happens. I certainly agree that Dell is not blameless. At best, their testing methodology is faulty and needs to be improved. But they're a company whose financial compensation is DIRECTLY tied to making customers happy. They *DO* care about getting repeat business. Let's not read in *TOO* much to their actions.

Interesting anecdotes, and I can certainly relate. But it isn't the case here. The problem with Axim Advanced w/WM2003 is so pervasive, so global in scope, and fully repeatable, that my experience leads me to believe that it was impossible that they didn't know when they shipped. Any testing beyond a simple "power on" would have exhibited the problem. And considering that this is a device with a new OS, it is reasonable that more detailed testing should take place.

More "proof". Look at Dell's response once they "officially" acknowledged the problems... a total halting of shipments of Axims until the fix has been developed and mainstreamed into production.

That's the proper response IMO. And that is what they would've done on day-1... something that I'm sure they were loathe to do.

I've been around the block enough times to know, that "executive decisions" are sometimes made to allow faulty product out the door while feverishly working on the fix in the hopes that a quick solution is found and minimize their exposure to the few devices that went out in the interrim.

If it was only the faulty Axims, I might be able to suspend my sense of disbelief and accept it as an "honest" bug that got out.

But taken in light of (A) the timing of their removal of the 2003 upgrade CD, and (B) their refusal to accept an customer complaints about performance related to WM2003, lead me to believe that my gut feeling is correct.

--------
This is the first time that I've had any dealings with Dell. My wife has in the past had some excellent support. The Axim Advanced, once the problems are corrected, is going to be the best PDA that I've owned to-date...that much I can see. But I'm not very pleased with the company itself (the service/support that I've received thus far has been abysmal) :( .

batuckan · 07-20-03, 03:30 PM

ender58074 wrote:
"If I call Dell 4 times, and each time results in frustration for me at the hands of an incompetent, then that is a %100 failure rate for Dell. How could I not judge the overall quality of support given by a company based on my own experience? In my logic, going back to a company wherein my expectations of quality have been prefaced by 4 examples of failure would be a "fallacy" in and of itself."
----------------------

Are you saying that you've had 400% <4x100>Failure rate with a product/support in regards to a simple company? amazing.

I believe most people would've stopped at 1 or 2x with customer dissatisfaction. Even considering brand loyalty, Why would you continue to come back to a company that you are so dissatisfied /displeased with? You have other options, RMA/Return, loading/Installing Linux, purchasing a different PDA...just curious I guess..

Which leads me to ask the following question:

If the Axim in it's current state is such a "faulty" product, why continue it's usage?...

I believe and again, IMHO: opinions like armpits differ in smell and appeal, but many of the severe critics of the current axim are sitting on the fence waiting and griping for dell to release the patch. They may have purchased another PDA, but I don't necessarily think they got rid of their axim's. It sits someplace just waiting till Dell releases their patch.

IMHO Compared to other PDA's, for similar features and options, the axim is the cheapest, and overall best value, I think that's why it was so popular. I think the axim itself is only 2? years old. Prior to WM2003 problem it was quickly replacing palm and other competitors. Heck even HP copied it's design by incorporating both MMC/CF capabilities and redesigning their product lineup.
splitting them between IPAQ? and removing the Jornada line.

I wonder how many have actually returned/rid of their axim, and or dropped the product label for another? Compaq/HP/ Pocketloox, Vayo... but are still posting on this NG/forum? and, if they are, why?

again, IMHO it's becoming quite apparent to me who the EU's<endusers> are, versus actual support staff. I think people who have to support technology and or deal with NOOB's and EU's have little bit more patience and compassion.

and finally, I thought the mission statement/idea of this NG was a
meeting place of positive ideas and information re: the axim.
It's rapidly changing into something else.

My apologies to the MOD, for any incurred spiteful and non-netiquette postings, this will possibly cause.

for the extremely unhappy dell axim users I leave one final question: why? why not get rid of it, and move on to another PDA
if you are not happy? Why post to this NG if you no longer have an axim and or using a different PDA that you are more pleased with?

just curious.

07-20-03, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by micahlegg
Thats great! i must of got a bad rep.:D

I don't think so. I have about 40 computers that are HP Kayak workstations that I have to deal with. I have had no issues with Dell Gold Support, but the HP support is painful.

MasterLaz · 07-20-03, 06:27 PM

All the anger....all the typing.....WHAT A WASTE!!!

SO... if you are still mad, reread every message in this thread and see if you solved anything the second time around.

07-20-03, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cageyjames
I don't think so. I have about 40 computers that are HP Kayak workstations that I have to deal with. I have had no issues with Dell Gold Support, but the HP support is painful.

well, i gues that settles it, im most definatly keeping my axim and glad im not even thinking about getting a hp laptop, although they look kool and there screens are good.:D

polaris2k3 · 07-20-03, 08:16 PM

Haha, arn't we getting a little off topic here?

07-20-03, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by micahlegg
well, i gues that settles it, im most definatly keeping my axim and glad im not even thinking about getting a hp laptop, although they look kool and there screens are good.:D

Yea, the laptops we hare look great and are really thin, I just can't stand calling them. Dell will replace anything that goes wrong, but HP makes you jump through hoops to get the same service.

Quote:

Originally posted by polaris2k3
Haha, arn't we getting a little off topic here?

Always....

07-20-03, 11:46 PM

...:D