Why cant Dell release a 2002 ROM for 2003? Answer here...

madmunki · 07-21-03, 07:39 PM

I have seen this question asked so many times, I decided to address it.

Q: Why can't Dell release a firmware downgrade for 2003 users?

A: Because Windows Pocket PC 2002 is a different product and this would cause software licensing issues. Just like a license of Windows XP does not come with a license of 2000, 98, 95, WIn31, DOS, etc. If you want to install 98 instead of XP, you will have to purchase a 98 license even if this is a DOWNGRADE. Dell purchases ONE license for each AXIM they produce from Microsoft. If Dell decided to release a firmware downgrade, they would have to buy a 2002 license for every AXIM that this ROM could be installed on. There is probably 3000+ AXIMs that shipped with 2003, and purchasing a 2002 license (~$15?) for all of these would be at least $45,000! Why would Dell do this when they expect a fix within 2 - 6 weeks?

In short, it's a licensing issue.

Kardinal · 07-21-03, 09:27 PM

While what you say may apply to MM2003, when you buy an OPEN (business) license of Windows XP, you do in fact get a license to downgrade.

But you may well be right.

doh! · 07-21-03, 09:31 PM

In the Dell CD case the 2003 license is for a upgrade - the original 2002 PPC license is intact, not replaced.

Even a 2003 license should be good for 2002 because it's impossible to install more than one OS at a time. Usually, as long as MS gets their money, they don't care too much how you use the license, within policy limits. Important is a license for each copy installed.

Microsoft sells (& I buy) downgrade licenses - specifically for Office 2000 and in the future, Windows 2000.

Today, if you want a copy Office 2000 and probably cannot buy it off of the shelf, you buy a Office XP license (same flavor - Standard, Pro, etc) and have Microsoft issue a Key# that can be used with 'your' retail copy of the Office 2000 CD.

Microsoft announced, months ago, that this will apply to Windows 2000 after it is no longer produced. It is officially called a Downgrade License by Microsoft. Licenses are sold in quantities as small as 1 License, to any number.

Why would someone want to do this?

Lot's of reasons - three key ones are below
1. Compatibility with proprietary & commercial software that cost a lot of money. Eliminated many of the SW engineer bugs.
2. More mature software updates available
3. To keep all employees on the same version of SW, rather than a hodge-podge with increased support issues & costs.

JmE · 07-21-03, 09:34 PM

I wonder about those of us that are currently running 2002. If I pay for the upgrade to 2003 and I don't like it, I can not go back, right? I would think that since I have paid (with the price of the Axim) for a license of 2002 and I pay for an upgrade, I should be able to go back to what I originally paid for...

At least it make sense to me that the upgrade CD should have the means to go back to 2002 on it since we originally paid to play with 2002.

-JmE-

doh! · 07-21-03, 09:39 PM

That would be consistent with Microsofts past policies

The 2003 license is worthless without PPC2002, not the other way

madmunki · 07-21-03, 10:17 PM

With the Upgrade version; you are purchasing 2003 license to install over a 2002 license. By doing this Upgrade, you have both licenses (a 2002 and a 2003), and are allowed to use either.

You don't get Windows 98 free when you buy Windows XP. If you bought Windows 98, and purchased a Windows XP Upgrade, then you have both licenses (You wont have 2 licenses of 98, and one XP).

07-21-03, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by madmunki
There is probably 3000+ AXIMs that shipped with 2003, and purchasing a 2002 license (~$15?) for all of these would be at least $45,000! Why would Dell do this when they expect a fix within 2 - 6 weeks?

Why? Because I (and I'm sure many others feel the same) will be returning my Axim for a refund if a fix isn't available with my 30 day window in which I can return the product for a full refund.

You have absolutely no idea if it is 30, 300, or 3000 units that shipped. And for a company as large as Dell, $45,000 (if that number is even close to accurate) is less than they spend on T-shirts for a roadshow.

And no where did Dell state that it would be 2-6 weeks for a fix to be published. You can't base that on "estimated ship dates" because those are on a day-for-day slip at this point in time.

They deliberately shipped a faulty product. The added expense of a temporary 2002 license (if such were the case) is simply part of them doing business and trying to keep customers.

I need to have a fully functional Axim before my 30 days is up. I don't care if it runs 2002 or 2003. Actually, I expected it to have 2002 since that is what the website said when I ordered it.

Ravin · 07-21-03, 11:13 PM

Wait a minute. Isn't a license per user, not per install? So what is wrong with downgrading??

cjradek · 07-21-03, 11:16 PM

wait, so does this mean that dell is rerquired to give all 2002 users the option of downgrading later?

cjradek · 07-21-03, 11:19 PM

just realized something after i posted, if dell gave 2002 on the 2003 cd update for those of us who want to downgrade, wouldnt that allow anyone who has 2003 preinstalled on their axim to just order the upgrade and then install 2002. Would that be legal. I'm starting to confuse myself more and more.

07-21-03, 11:46 PM

Folks, the whole licensing issue is something that none of us are privy to. Any comments about pricing, upgrades, and licensing are all speculation.

MS and Dell are free to work out any deal they want.

Absolutely believe it that if Dell and MS thought that giving us 2002 as an interrim solution would benefit them, they'd do it.

Those of us who are effected, need to let them know that it WOULD be in their best interest to do it. (Just as our persistence forced Dell to finally acknowledge the existence of the problem)

JmE · 07-22-03, 12:20 AM

Correct, but would it be right for Dell to take my money for an upgrade to 2003 and take away my ability to return to 2002 for which I also paid?

I doubt they will make provisions for it, but I would like the option to return to my original, licensed 2002 if I do not like the 2003 I purchase.

Just my thoughts and opinions on it... I'm sure Dell will do as Dell does...

-JmE-

07-22-03, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JmE
Correct, but would it be right for Dell to take my money for an upgrade to 2003 and take away my ability to return to 2002 for which I also paid?

I doubt they will make provisions for it, but I would like the option to return to my original, licensed 2002 if I do not like the 2003 I purchase.

Just my thoughts and opinions on it... I'm sure Dell will do as Dell does...

-JmE-

We're talking about the possibility of Dell providing an interrim solution (like offering 2002 to those of us with Axim 2003's)...

The Upgrade CD is a whole other animal. People with 2002 Axims interested in upgrading should pay very close attention to how Dell is handling the preload issue.

Those of us who just received our devices, have the opportunity to return it for a refund... but others, if stuck with an unremovable upgrade, may find themselves worse off... with little or no recourse.

We have been virtually exclusively focusing on the WM2003 performance problems, but we need to look past that at the software incompatibilities introduced by WM2003.

Before people order their upgrades and install, check the other forums for other devices running WM2003 and check out those apps that no longer work... like PocketMIDI and NYDITOT (which I discovered firsthand) :( .....