Are you upset with Dell?

Jerry · 08-13-03, 09:06 PM

With market competition on one side and customers on the other, the high tech industry is a double edged sword for vendors such as Dell. Attempting to satisfy demands from both sides forces vendors such as Dell into moving products to market before they are ready. Microsoft is a good example. Why do you think they have so many patches. Recently Dell tried to satisfy its user community but for reason documents elsewhere, their good intentions backfired.

Now, I've been a software engineer for 25 years and have seen a time when customers didn't even know a product was available until it was 100% bug free. Lately, the trend is to get it 95% bug free. In other words, lets get it out there and we'll fix the other five percent later. In most cases this works out ok. But it never fails, there's always someone who wants to complain even though 95% of what they want is there and its bug free!

Your mad because you haven't received your upgrade? Well, indirectly its your own darn fault! Unfortunately you are a member of the impatient - I WANT IT NOW - consumer community! You want in now, you want it bug free, and you don't want to pay for it. Like it or not, it doesn't work like that without sacrifices and the 95% rule is uisually the sacrifice.

With that said, my source has told me that Dell is not sending out WM2003 until after a working A05 ROM patch is distributed. Dell recognizes that there are issues between WM2003 and ROM version A04 so rather than have unsatisfied custeomers, Dell will distribute WM2003 after the A05 upgrade is available. Furthermore, the A05 upgrade will be a requirement for upgrading to WM2003.

Believe it or not, Dell is trying to do the right thing...

Jerry

08-13-03, 09:10 PM

Right on!

dmascot · 08-13-03, 09:12 PM

If it is true that some of our European friends have gotten the upgrade CD with the fixed patch, then I am upset with Dell.

Seems to me Dell should be more concerned with fixing the new Axim's that were sold with the faulty OS. Before sending out upgrades to people with perfectly running Axim's.

Am I expecting too much?

f5etiger · 08-13-03, 10:27 PM

Something a little off track but right along this line.

I read today that Gateway, who was preparing to debut their on PDA/Pocket PC, has again pulled their release due to issues that were not mentioned.

I think the recent Dell fiasco sent a message to the tech community, do not release a product unless it’s ready to be released.

I believe a lot of companies, Gateway included, have opted or will opt to complete further testing to insure that their products not only meet their expectations but those of their customers as well.

This will be a boon to us the consumers of these products, knowing that we may no longer get defective equipment from the very start. Now don't get me wrong, there will still be the scrupulous company who cares nothing about its customers and only worries about the bottom line. These companies will not last.

I believe that Dell had the best intentions, not only to its current customer base, but its future customers as well. As Jerry so eloquently put it "we are all impatient and want it now" and I agree with that, which was obvious in some of the treads that I read just a few weeks ago.

Things take time to correct and for some of us to expect Dell to correct something overnight are a little unfair. Can you imagine the uproar if they had released another patch/fix that wouldn't work. Now I know I'm going to hear about the 1/13 error that occurred to some but not all members, but I've had my Ax for going on three weeks and I've had no problems. And my thoughts go out to those of you that have had this and other problems.

I'm sure Dell has seen the confusion, anger and frustration that were caused from this situation and I'm sure that if they had to do it all over again they would change the way that they handled it.
Dell was in the spotlight and not the spotlight they wanted to be in.

Dell is a good company that stands behind their products not many companies does that much anymore.

rotan · 08-13-03, 11:09 PM

A Question to the DELL Service Center:
"Issue Category = Status of my order
>
> ***********************************************
> Problem Description:
>
> Sir:
> After waiting, waiting, and waiting, the ship date continues to be
> pushed back for the PPC2003 OS for my new Axim. You do not update the
> order status up front, I must manually enter my customer #, zip, and
> order tracking number to locate my outstanding order on the order
> status site. Are you ashamed of the service provided your customers
> in support of the products you market? By your actions, it would
> appear so. Your actions don't say a lot about your real concern, but,
> your lack of action speak louder than a thunder storm in support of
> your customer. Yes, you have my money, yes I trusted Dell, you had
> all that up front, and now you seem to want to throw it away little by
> little day by day - delay after delay after delay.
>
> The order in question, was placed via your web site in late June. Is
> the best you can do for an estimated receive date at my location the
> middle of September? Or, is it a case of your investment in and/or
> marketing agreement in/with other software companie(s) that won't have
> a product to offer due to it being (bundled)part of the new PPC2003
> OS? You cause a customer to form doubt and through your continued
> support, you foster the growth of that doubt into the lack of faith in
> a business partnership.
>
> Yes, I have the money and you want it, but, faith in business actions,
> real action, is the only way you can achieve a repeat customer.
> Without repeat customers, DELL will run out of a customer base."

Dell's Reply - Place another order?
"Thank you for contacting Dell Customer Care.

I apologize for the inconvenience caused with regard to this issue. Owing to the technical downtime and the issues pertaining to the performance of the OS, Dell is making every attempt to resolve the issues with the original software manufacturer. We will begin Shipping the upgrades once Dell is satisfied that the Upgrade O/S meets our highest quality standards for performance with our Axim PDA

I am sorry, however, we are unable to process the request to place the order for the same. As soon as the issues are completely resolved, you are welcome to buy the same from our software and peripheral department. You can contact them at:"

People/firms establish goals and completion dates to insure important business itmes are not dropped from the radar screen. I did not notice a specific date for resolution, only a self defensive statement that they were working on it. If I sent them a check and it was returned as ISF, would they expect me to reply in the same way Dell has responded to my order status? They would accept my check in good faith, no different than I accepted their product in good faith. There is no difference, in my opinion, DELL has dropped the ball.

IridiumFlash · 08-14-03, 12:20 AM

I am also a software engineer with many years of experience. While you make some very valid points about the current software enviornment, the real question is:

How much testing of their A05 patch could they have done if approx 30-40% of the users experienced a problem?

Additionally, I'm willing to bet that the problem is a relatively minor one (1 bit is all you need).

If they know what the problem is, and they obviously have the resources to fix and test it, then why don't we have it?
Answer: They either don't have a solution or they are holding it back because doing so is more cost effective.

<b>Now here is the really big question...

How much testing of the X5 A04 ROM and WM2003 could have been done as the slowdown is blatently obvious to at least 75% of the units within minutes of using them?
</b>

Sorry, but the 95% rule here is that Dell failed to test 95% of their product and then denied that there could be a problem.

They get a thumbs down from me on this one.

richmds · 08-14-03, 01:24 AM

I dont think the answer is as clear cut as consumer demand forces bad products. Consumer demand is created by companies standing on the soap box and promoting their snake oil. Dell didnt have to tell everyone the latest and greatest was coming. They could have just had no comment till the thing was ready and then spring it on us. Im sure the Axim community would have appreciated that more than the its coming next week then oh wait we dont know when its coming approach, while I applaud them on their efforts I dont think MS is a good example of this. MS sells a product before its ready not because of anything but selfish reasons, market research, measuring consumer demand, and locking in dollars for a product that may or may not work. Which is why the govt and consumers are bugging them on a number of issues now.

Beowulf · 08-14-03, 08:38 AM

Get it right the first time, internally beta test it, market the release date and then distribute a 100% working product.
I disagree with the statement "Unfortunately you are a member of the impatient - I WANT IT NOW - consumer community!"
Software companies push out incomplete software for one reason...GREED....the faster they can get money from the consumer, the faster the "fatcats" make a buck!
If all consumable products were shipped 90% complete, we'd be in a serious state of hurt!
We need to stop accepting inferior products as the norm.

Jerry · 08-14-03, 08:44 AM

You have all brought up some very good points. Here is the bottom line - and make sure you read the last paragraph..

Pro's

1. Dell is replacing Axims that were sold with A04 and WM2003 at NO CHARGE to the customer. In some cases even beyond the 30 day return policy. My replacement is an Axim Advanced, PXA255 Processor, Rev 002, ROM A05, WM2003 (build 13100 ) and it works flawlessly.

2. Dell is making a ROM and WM2003 upgrade available to owners of older Axims. They didn't have to do that at all! Your Axim still works the way it did when you bought it..Those few who have successfully upgraded a pleased with the performance.

3. Dell IS providing a great product at a competative price and I'll go out on a limb to say that most Axim owners would probably still be using a Palm device if it weren't for the camparatively low priced Axim.

Con's

1. Dell Apparently failed to properly test A05 on all revisions of its Axim. Yes, revisions, not versions.
2. Dell also failed to properly test WM2003 against all revisions.
3. Dell Continued to sell defective Axims with WM2003 and A04 even after they knew of the problems.
4. Dell has fallen short on its promises. Technical support has given out incorrect information relating to shipment dates, product availablity, exchange policy, etc; but they are just doing their job and using what information Dell see's fit to provide.
5 Dell is not saying much in public sector concerning the upgrade. There's is much speculation as to why upgrades aren't being shipped but none of us know for sure. For all we know it could be a problem with WM2003.

As you can see Dell has done some good thing and they've also made some mistakes along the way but they have good intentions..

NOT EXACTLY! Dell relies heavily on programmers, engineers, and technical support personel from countries such as India. This is known in the industry as OFFSHORING and Dell is one of the big ones. These OFFSHORE employees are well educated but it has been my experience, and I've worked with too many programmers from India, that they DO NOT have "Attention to Detail", and this just might be the reason for the apparent lack of testing. Enough of my SoapBoxing..

darkmind · 08-14-03, 08:49 AM

I donno - I just chalk it up to the fact that I'm buying a Dell PDA for $200 compared to similar PDAs by other companies that run $400-600 range.

Sure it sucks, but uh.... when was the last time you bought a Dodge Neon and directly compared it to a Porsche 996 turbo?

In our case, you've got a Neon that has the same engine as a Porsche ;) Only cost you $9,000 instead of $130,000, and goes just as fast. Sure the documentation isn't as good, or customer service isn't all that great. You got a bargain, I got a bargain.

I'm not kissing dell's ass in any way, but I knew beforehand their product was superior in price and there are some limitations that go along with it

richmds · 08-14-03, 10:48 AM

Thats apples and oranges comparing cars.

A Neon is safe and as drivable as is the Porsche regardless of price because the feds demand it.
As with the Axim vs. a $400 PDA the A05 doesnt work and has caused problems of inoperability.

What would happen if you took your Neon in for a recall and when you get it back next thing you know your driving and the thing decides to stop in the middle of the freeway or makes a right turn on its own taking you into a wall.
And when you went to Dodge for answers and they told you, you wanted to be cheap thats cheap. You could have purchased the nice Porsche but you want to the bargain Neon.

08-14-03, 10:56 AM

Still you'd like to see Dell address the concerns of the community. Silence only breeds discontent...

shwaguy · 08-14-03, 11:08 AM

I just recieved my Dell AXIM PXA255 two weeks ago. I was supposed to get it 3 weeks ago. They said it was delayed because of the new software release. So, I am assuming I have the new upgrade. But, by listening to you guys maybe I don't. How do I check to see if I do??

I'd appreciate it. I'm new to the Axim world so I don't wanna get screwed

shwaguy · 08-14-03, 11:14 AM

To add....Info I can see on my AXIM:

Version 4.20.1081 (build 13100)
1996-2003 Microsoft corp.
Processor: Intel(R) PXA255
Memory: 63.33 MB
and just found iy....ROM version A05 (07170300EN)

...looks like I answered my own question . Looks like I have the WM2003!!

08-14-03, 11:34 AM

thinking like that is a great scape goat... when I ordered my Axim 2003 came after 2 weeks... I was still on the "I can return this and order a new one" period but I didnt thinking they would get the upgrade to me on time. That has not happened. Period. If a company promises something and doesnt deliver it there is NO EXCUSE good enough to give to a customer, ever, that is the way it is. The customer paid and the company has not delivered, there are no two ways to look at it.