Howard2k

If you don't like it, don't read it.

He's involved in the discussion (this is a discussion forum after all) but if you don't want to be, that's a choice you're allowed to make.

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duckie

WiFiFoFum is bar-none the best one

it even has a radar screen to see where the hotspots are.

Howard2k

The radar screen is purely a representation of signal strength. Nothing to do with actual direction and distance. It IS a good program though.

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Hedonicmirage

The can has been opened!

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DStutz

Originally Posted by Ferrari348GTS

What does that mean?

Do you understand now?

Martin

You can find a wonderful discussion of his subject here on Aximsite. I don't think there was a great deal of agreement, however.

As to whether it is actually illegal, here's one interpretation of current US federal law (in addition, many US states have legislated for this fairly recently: see below):

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The current revision of Title 18 18 U.S.C. 1030 says that you must intentionally access a protected computer without authorization, and as a result of such conduct, cause damage of $5000 or more in a 1-year period for this to be a crime.

So, let's say we just want to do some Internet surfing via a wide-open, unencrypted AP of unknown origin (probably a neighbor), from the luxury of the living room...

-Is it intentional? YES.
-Is it a "computer" I'm accessing? According to USC 18 - YES. An AP is a computer by definition.
-Is it a protected computer? According to the definition in USC 18 - Not inherently. But in this case we'll be getting on the Internet, so YES.
-Is the access authorized? No.
-Am I causing a loss of $5000 or more? Easily - See below.

"Loss" can include things like time spent responding to the incident, damage assessment, etc. So, "loss" can add up pretty quickly with these intangibles. However, it doesn't count unless the loss was incurred as a result of a crime.

So, to sum up - Chilling in your living room and surfing via your neighbors AP (as harmless as it seems) is a federal crime. Also, some states like Alaska now have laws that specifically prohibit doing this as well (Theft of Service).
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Originally Posted by Howard2k

If someone is stupid enough to leave their car unlocked they deserve to get it stolen. If someone is stupid enough to leave their house unlocked they deserve to get burgled.

...

Originally Posted by HOWARD2K on 2-28-05 at 5.39PM

I live in an area where I can leave my doors open all year round thankfully. But hey - each to their own. I suppose you think if someone leaves their door unlocked it's fair game for them to get burgled too.

...it's not nice to call yourself stupid, Howard! Apologise to yourself immediately! :hide: :)

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Howard2k

lol - smartarse.

I was being facetious :D

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Bradish

Thanks for the word linking Howard. I had to look up like 4 words. I had no idea 'burgled' is a word

duckie

Originally Posted by Howard2k

The radar screen is purely a representation of signal strength. Nothing to do with actual direction and distance. It IS a good program though.

See, that's funny because I used that radar to follow the strength. i.e. directional

toe-may-toe - toe-mah-toe, right?

Howard2k

Sure - but it's the screen placement that is random. Just because the software shows the AP being off to your left does not mean that it actually is off to the left. That's what I mean about it representing distance not direction. When it's showing as being closer then you ARE closer of course. Or the signal is fluctuating.

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{S}

Unfortunately, factoring in RF wave behavior and the varying signal strengths produced by WAPs, the placement on the radar screen is only somewhat useful. I agree it is a cool display though!

Grentz

I like the radar as it gives you an easy overview of what is going on with just a quick glance....

I have gone into town and had about 60 hotspots come up on that radar screen at once...and that is on the Highway !!!

In my mind if people are stupid enough to leave their wifi unprotected, then you can connect to it...but not for hacking, or compromising their system...just to share their internet that should not do anything at all to them

Ookii

Originally Posted by Ferrari348GTS

Thank you all. I think that if somebody is stupid enough to not put a wep key in place then they deserve it. The people in my neighborhood are very wealthy, so it should not hurt them. The other place is like the library.

Well then, maybe if you are so ambitious you can make a little money. Just connect to their network, and print off a document with printpocketce that says, "Your network is unsecure and potentially a playground for the ill-intented, but fortunantly if you call 555-555-5555 I can secure it for a reasonable price. It is your choice to engange in this service, and if you choose not to give me a call, let this message only serve as a reminder of the dangers of an uprotected network."

Or you could just use PocketLAN or Network Browser and steal all their encrypted iTunes files which you won't be able to use.

Oh btw: I found 44 unprotected APs driving half a mile in my neighborhood, it's just fun to find out what's out there, you don't actually have to connect to them (and it's also funny to see what they're named).

Martin

Originally Posted by Grentz

In my mind if people are stupid enough to leave their wifi unprotected, then you can connect to it...but not for hacking, or compromising their system...just to share their internet that should not do anything at all to them

For me, it's not about morality or ethics. It's about legality. Quite a few US states now have laws against such an act, and there is an argument (as above) about whether federal laws apply.

Certainly in the UK, you would be breaking the law. So I don't do it.

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jmckie

For the sake of discussion, I have to ask this about "legality": Do you never drive over the speed limit? Suppose you are on the freeway with no one else on the road, will you feel bad going 10km over the posted limit?

The legislation is meant for real abuse, for legitimate attempts to cause damage. The odds are astronomical against actually being prosecuted for benign web surfing. The cost of prosecuting such a benign infraction is a million times more costly to society - and would actually be a bigger "crime".