WM 5.0 and Persistant Storage - Performance?

JNGold · 05-11-05, 08:55 AM

Now that we know that WM5.0 revised memory structure will use writeable ROM (aka Filestore) for storage memory and PIM data, what effect (if any) will it have on app performance. We all know that NAND (forgot the other type) of flash rom is slower than regular RAM.

Ok, people, lets chime in. Thoughts, comments, opinions?

swhoutx035 · 05-11-05, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by JNGold

Now that we know that WM5.0 revised memory structure will use writeable ROM (aka Filestore) for storage memory and PIM data, what effect (if any) will it have on app performance. We all know that NAND (forgot the other type) of flash rom is slower than regular RAM.

Ok, people, lets chime in. Thoughts, comments, opinions?

Interesting thought. It might not be that noticeable except on intial open and load of PIM and PIM data. It will also probably be dependent on how developers write their apps to take advantage of the new scheme.

rob1303 · 05-11-05, 10:26 AM

Just tested my filestore and reading from it (which is what you will mainly do) wasn't a lot different from my (albeit slow) SD card

Writing to it was a bit slower though.

(and yes I know the 2210 isn't getting the upgrade but memory is memory)

slashlos · 05-11-05, 10:38 AM

Hmmm, I smell a caching scheme in the works, or should be to offset the slower media. With such a scheme say at soft-reset, you wouldn't notice it afterwards but does introduce another thing to break being a cached filestore. It could alleviate i/o bottenecks by employing lazy [i.e., memory first, filestore alter] write.

They could of course employ a journalizing i/o scheme but the memory footprint of the o/s would go up a bit but would be novel on this platform. If you start with a clean slate and "no holds barred" h/w design, I'd opt for a minimum 256/256 ram/rom config and 1/4 of that ram for a journal filesystem cache. We are of course talking about a quantum leap in o/s technology design, but just maybe.... :approve:

whitelyt · 05-11-05, 10:40 AM

I think Microsoft realizes that and thus making the statement that it is intended for new devices. The OS has always driven the hardware, not the other way around. The hardware has to conform to the OS to take full advantage of what the OS has to offer. It's nice the OEMs like HP and Dell is offering the new OS on some of their existing devices. But in the long run there will be some drawbacks.

Expect to see newer devices in the future to have a reworked memory system to conform to the OS.

woody32 · 05-11-05, 11:17 AM

My concern is how well Windows Mobile 5.0 will run on 64MB of ram. Microsoft OS's are notorious for not running well on the minimum amount of memory. It usually takes twice as much RAM to run correctly.

JNGold · 05-11-05, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by woody32

My concern is how well Windows Mobile 5.0 will run on 64MB of ram. Microsoft OS's are notorious for not running well on the minimum amount of memory. It usually takes twice as much RAM to run correctly.

It will run fine. Rememeber, that 64mb of RAM will be fully for application memory not a combo of Storage/Program memory.

whitelyt · 05-11-05, 12:55 PM

It just seems pretty silly that the program memory would be more faster then the storage area in ROM for the hx2000 and hx4700 devices running WM5.0. But that's the reality with those devices upgrading to WM5.0.

swhoutx035 · 05-11-05, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by whitelyt

It just seems pretty silly that the program memory would be more faster then the storage area in ROM for the hx2000 and hx4700 devices running WM5.0. But that's the reality with those devices upgrading to WM5.0.

Hi Ted, any insight for those of us who upgraded to 128MB RAM whether or not WM5 will still be an option? I sent an email to PPC Techs, but haven't heard back from them yet. The new chip didn't require any special drivers under WM2003SE, and the hx2700 series has 128MB RAM and it seems WM is supported for that device/chip, so I am pretty sure there won't be any issues, but any clarification would be helpful. I upgraded my device with the understanding I would be using it for a while regardless of whether or not any new OS's or devices came on the market, but it would be nice to have the option to upgrade to WM5.

whitelyt · 05-11-05, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by swhoutx035

Hi Ted, any insight for those of us who upgraded to 128MB RAM whether or not WM5 will still be an option? I sent an email to PPC Techs, but haven't heard back from them yet. The new chip didn't require any special drivers under WM2003SE, and the hx2700 series has 128MB RAM and it seems WM is supported for that device/chip, so I am pretty sure there won't be any issues, but any clarification would be helpful. I upgraded my device with the understanding I would be using it for a while regardless of whether or not any new OS's or devices came on the market, but it would be nice to have the option to upgrade to WM5.

That is a good question! I am thinking it shouldn't be an issue but it is hard to say.

PerlAddict · 05-11-05, 01:47 PM

Part of a gmail convo I was having with a buddy after talking about how I thought 128MB of memory dedicated solely to programs running seemed a little excessive for hx2755 users, and how I'd always heard accessing the ROM was slower:

Wow, I didn't realize the h2755 had that much memory. I'm sure you'll be set either way with that unit. I've also heard that ROM is slower, but that might be just because the OS has previously always been in RAM, and maybe there's a performance penalty when the OS has to request data across whatever sort of bus connects the RAM and ROM. I'm thinking that if the OS is actually in ROM, and it can request program data from within that same memory, it should be quick. We'll see though. I've heard there are quite a few performance improvements because they've updated the internal databases to the newest Windows CE version, so hopefully if ROM is slower, we won't notice much of a difference.

Just more food for thought. The "updated databases" comment was in reference to PI 2005 running on WM2005.

swhoutx035 · 05-11-05, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by whitelyt

That is a good question! I am thinking it shouldn't be an issue but it is hard to say.

In order to try to preserve this thread's topic, I posted my reply from PPCTechs here: http://www.ipaqhq.com/forums/showthr...2780#post82780

JNGold · 05-11-05, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by swhoutx035

In order to try to preserve this thread's topic, I posted my reply from PPCTechs here: http://www.ipaqhq.com/forums/showthr...2780#post82780

Sw,

Not quite sure what the correlation is there.

On another note, my experience with FileStore has not been the greatest having a older 560 lose the FS altogether. What concerns me even more is that even some of the newer devices experience the same issue. I wonder how susceptible FS is to problems. Ever since my 560 days, I have not pressed the limits of the filestore.

swhoutx035 · 05-11-05, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by JNGold

Sw,

Not quite sure what the correlation is there.

There probably wasn't one, that's why I moved my question/answer to another thread.:approve:

When you send your device for the upgrade all OEM support is voided. I was just curious how it might affect any future OS updates.

Driftless · 05-11-05, 08:59 PM

also realize that when a program is running, it is in RAM to run just like Windows...and the ROM is the hard drive...might be a delay upon initial open, but will be fine after that...plus it may just save battery with a complete shut down option...hmmm a recommendation possibly?