No WM5.0 upgrade for X30 - first incompatibile apps...

merliin · 05-24-05, 01:25 PM

Unfortunately it`s just happened what I expected would happen...

I`ve just read that first applications compatibile with WM5.0 only (due to Direct Mobile) begin to appear on the market. In this case it is cfWorldWind - an application that I would not probably use anyway, however the fact of it`s incompatibility with fairy new and powerful model like Axim X30 is pretty disturbing.

Therefore I propose to list here all the upcoming applications compatibile with WM5.0 only. One day a link to this thread may become a tool for showing Dell that un upgrade to Axim X30 is highly expected by it`s users.

I wonder what`s your opinion on that...

Cheers!

Howard2k · 05-24-05, 01:41 PM

Good idea. But I think it would be better served in the WM 5 forum, since it's not an X30 specific issue.

bcries · 05-24-05, 01:46 PM

Merliin,

I see from your sig that you switched from Palm in 2004 (last year). Good move. I'm an X30-high owner too, and I had two PocketPCs previous to that (Casio e125, Axim X5). As someone who has seen numerous PocketPC OS upgrades, let me school you a bit:

Dell won't listen to you. You sound exactly like the hundreds of angry X5 users last year who wanted an upgrade to WM2003 SE and didn't get it (including myself).

Petitions, polls, angry posts, letters, phone calls... but from experience I'd say that they aren't so dumb as to be like "oh, wow, I guess there really IS interest in an upgrade among X30 owners!" Of course there's interest. They already knew that. There will always be interest in upgrades.

Dell is in the business of selling new hardware. If they had a way to stop their laptops and desktops from being OS-upgraded from one version of Windows to the next, they probably would do it. New software pushes new hardware.

Think of it this way: OEMs are building these devices to some pretty rigid specs. For all intensive purposes, the device is the OS is the appliance. If Microsoft wants you to have new functionality for free, they'll provide it in the form of a download from www.pocketpc.com (much like Windows Update for desktop machines). When they want you to buy a new device, they'll stick the functionality in a new OS.

Yes this sucks. Yes they are corporate jerks. Yes, the phrase "Pocket PC" is seductive because one of the main benefits of a PC is hardware-software separation, and the ability to upgrade each selectively. I just thought you should know that this is an old, old problem.

merliin · 05-24-05, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Howard2k

Good idea. But I think it would be better served in the WM 5 forum, since it's not an X30 specific issue.

Might also be, however IMHO it is a very much X30 related issue.

merliin · 05-24-05, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by bcries

Merliin,

I see from your sig that you switched from Palm in 2004 (last year). Good move. I'm an X30-high owner too, and I had two PocketPCs previous to that (Casio e125, Axim X5). As someone who has seen numerous PocketPC OS upgrades, let me school you a bit:

Dell won't listen to you. (...)

Maybe they will not, however in that case my next device is definitely not going to be DELL branded. As I`ve already mentioned in one of the other threads concerning the issue - as a customer I hate being... ehem... U know... ehem... let`s say: "pushed to some undesired purchases".

Cheers!

05-24-05, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by merliin

Maybe they will not, however in that case my next device is definitely not going to be DELL branded. As I`ve already mentioned in one of the other threads concerning the issue - as a customer I hate being... ehem... U know... ehem... let`s say: "pushed to some undesired purchases".

Cheers!

I understand your frustration, but then this non-upgrade policy is not specific to Dell. Every other manufacturer does it...HP did it for their iPaq series. So you will be really hard pressed to find a manufacturer that will keep on providing software upgrades to their "old" hardware.

At the end of it, it's all about profit margin and cost-benefit analysis. There is much more profit in providing new software in new hardware and at the most provide an upgrade in the most recent hardware. Cost-benefit wise (aside from the technical aspect), it makes more sense for the number-crunchers to provide upgrade only till X50 series.

Now whenever we will have WM2006 (pure speculation, please), do you think Dell will provide upgrade to X50? I don't think so. Dell will most probably provide WM2006 in their latest 2006 series PPC and at the most 2005 series. That's the way business works and not much you can do about it.

I work in a product development company and we stop providing any more patches to a product that we released more than 18 months back. It makes more sense for the management to invest the time and money of developers, designers, documentation, testers, QA support, customer support, managers, etc in coming out with new products/features rather than providing endless support to old product lines.

You would be very happy if you were a Dell stockholder knowing that you are not putting your money into "old and outdated" hardware.

Howard2k · 05-24-05, 02:26 PM

Not only that, but with 64MB maximum ROM the X30 range is hardly a "prime candidate" for the update.

merliin · 05-24-05, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by CdSlc

I understand your frustration, but then this non-upgrade policy is not specific to Dell. Every other manufacturer does it...HP did it for their iPaq series. So you will be really hard pressed to find a manufacturer that will keep on providing software upgrades to their "old" hardware.

At the end of it, it's all about profit margin and cost-benefit analysis.(...)

Please, you don`t have to give me lectures on some basic cost-oriented economics here. BTW, I have a masters degree in that field so I do perfectly know the rules...

You`re missing the point. I am talking about the long term customer oriented strategy which is the only proper foundation for long term succesful companies (except monopolists). The experience shows clearly, that it is very, very hard to win a customer - while it is very easy to loose one at the same time.

To put it short: let`s make it 24 months instead of 18 months mentioned in the above post and 99% of customers will be happy.

I purchased my Axim X30 High hardly a year ago (as a world wide novelty at that time) and hate to watch it become outdated so quickly. And if we`re talking about hypothetical WM6.0 OS upgrade - well, at the time it arrives I`ll surely be ready to make a hardware switch, as IMHO most of the current X30 users.

Cheers!

merliin · 05-24-05, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Howard2k

Not only that, but with 64MB maximum ROM the X30 range is hardly a "prime candidate" for the update.

Right, and what about the X50 "Low" which - according to my knowledge - also has got only 64MB of ROM and will have the upgrade available...? As far as performance is concerned, the X30 High is still capable of winning some performance related comparisons - as my experience clearly shows.

05-24-05, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by merliin

Maybe they will not, however in that case my next device is definitely not going to be DELL branded. As I`ve already mentioned in one of the other threads concerning the issue - as a customer I hate being... ehem... U know... ehem... let`s say: "pushed to some undesired purchases".

Cheers!

Most of the onther companies only offered upgrades for their newest high end devices

quack · 05-24-05, 03:13 PM

You guys forget the power users who come to these sites, who might be tempted to complain to Dell and others are in the minority

Howard2k · 05-24-05, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by merliin

Right, and what about the X50 "Low" which - according to my knowledge - also has got only 64MB of ROM and will have the upgrade available...? As far as performance is concerned, the X30 High is still capable of winning some performance related comparisons - as my experience clearly shows.

You're right, it does have only 64MB of ROM. But designing the OS for the x50v and then offering a version for the X50 low (which shares a significant amount of the architecture) makes sense, even if the X50 low is not an ideal candidate. Building the OS for the X30 (which by the same logic (admittedly it's my logic)) is also not a good candidate makes less sense.

Anyway - I don't mean to derail your thread. If you're up to it, I would like to see a list of WM 5 specific applications. If you want to commit to doing that then I think that would be great.

merliin · 05-24-05, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Howard2k

You're right, it does have only 64MB of ROM. But designing the OS for the x50v and then offering a version for the X50 low (which shares a significant amount of the architecture) makes sense, even if the X50 low is not an ideal candidate. Building the OS for the X30 (which by the same logic (admittedly it's my logic)) is also not a good candidate makes less sense.

Anyway - I don't mean to derail your thread. If you're up to it, I would like to see a list of WM 5 specific applications. If you want to commit to doing that then I think that would be great.

Hey, no offence here

I just think (which is justified by other threads in the X30`s section) that there are many enough users who would like to see the newest apps running on their X30s (especially the High version) to make it worth trying.

Besides, the technical difference between the X30H and X50L is (according to my knowledge) small enough to make adjusting the new OS a low cost operation. I mean it`s not the m125 vs X30H kind of difference. IMO it`s just the lousy "accountancy oriented approach" that creates a "problem" here.

If everything is going to develop that way, we`re going to have to switch our gear every six months in few years time just because corporations want to make more money in shorter period of time - and I don`t like that vision at all...

Once again - it`s not socialism, it`s customer-oriented approach here

merliin · 05-24-05, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by tancerman

Most of the onther companies only offered upgrades for their newest high end devices

So they should be pushed by their customers as well and as much as possible :hide:
Otherwise one day we`re all going to have problem like described in my previous post...

05-24-05, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by merliin

Please, you don`t have to give me lectures on some basic cost-oriented economics here. BTW, I have a masters degree in that field so I do perfectly know the rules...

Since you perfectly know the rules, I would have thought that it should have dawned upon you that this is how any company would conduct their business. This is no mom-and-pop store, this is a multi-billion dollar company, whose first responsibility is towards its shareholders equity and then its customer base.

Originally Posted by merliin

You`re missing the point. I am talking about the long term customer oriented strategy which is the only proper foundation for long term succesful companies (except monopolists). The experience shows clearly, that it is very, very hard to find a customer - while it is very easy to loose one at the same time.

I agree it is very hard to get a customer and very easy to lose one. But if Dell loses a customer on the basis of software upgrade, where is this customer going to go??? HP?? Is it any better? If all the companies are doing the same, there is not much point in jumping ship from Dell to HP, is there??

One other thing that you should note is that you are already a Dell customer, whether you will be a repeat customer or not, is a different question. When Dell puts more resources into providing new hardware and new software, what Dell will be getting are brand-new customers, perhaps some of them are coming over from HP or Palm, which is even better for Dell and some of them are repeat customers of Dell.

After all the "customer oriented strategy" has been implemented, what is the bottom line??? It is the net profit and EPS that can be shown to the investors. And how do you increase net profit, by selling new hardware, more feature laden PPC with new software. You don't increase your net profit by providing upgrades to customers who have "old" hardware.

I got a cutting-edge laptop last year, and this year its specs are already outdated. I can get a much better, faster, lighter laptop for far less money than what I paid last year. It is a fact of life in electronics industry that whatever you buy today is outdated by tomorrow and will be far cheaper tomorrow.

Originally Posted by merliin

To put it short: let`s make it 24 months instead of 18 months mentioned in your post and 99% of customers will be happy.

I don't think making it 24 months would make 99% of customers happy. It might make more customers happy. But there will always be a certain percentage of customers who would like the 'xx' months to be extended so that they fall within that umbrella. At some point, the company has decide for itself what it thinks is a reasonable time period.

Originally Posted by merliin

I purchased my Axim X30 High hardly a year ago (as a world wide novelty at that time) and hate to watch it become outdated so quickly. And if we`re talking about hypothetical WM6.0 OS upgrade - well, at the time it arrives I`ll surely be ready to make a hardware switch, as IMHO most of the current X30 users.

You missed my point about the hypothetical WM6.0 OS. The point is not whether X30 users would be ready to make a hardware switch. What I am trying to say is that at that point of time X50v users would be crying and saying the same thing that you are saying now...that they bought their hardware hardly a year back, X50v was the greatest and the best out in the market then and they expect Dell to provide them with WM6.0 upgrade.

Would you be happy to buy a $500 piece-meal X50 with no VGA, no dual-slot even though you knew that Dell has been very religiously providing WM2003SE upgrades to its X3, X5 and X30 customers??? I don't think so. When you are buying something new, you expect the most bang for your money. Dell can provide that for you, only if they remove some resources from one sector (providing upgrades to "old" hardware) and put the same resources into some other sector (developing new hardware/software). Dell has to prioritise its resources, you can't blame them for it.