stevodude

well I've just been running the microsoft device emulator for windows mobile 5.0 vga ppc, and the only differences I can see are

Memory management is no longer there ( ie as what others have stated ),
Cab installer asks you where you want to install
different task bar/menu bar icons

STILL RUNS QVGA MODE even tho it's supposed to be vga mode. ie I believe your still going to need a VGA hack to get real vga mode to work. Because PIE looks the same as on my x50v without sevga running. and Excel looks the same as my x50v without sevga running.

I cannot see what the heck is different, apart from the visual studio 2005 build tools are pretty cool to build apps on.

I for one think it's just another scam from Microsoft.

2003se - 5.0 is like going from windows95 to 95sr2 or something.

if i can't get vga mode with wm5.0 then I won't buy it.

added:
yea looks like wm5.0 is mainly being released for ease of programing for developers and for mobile phone devices, not VGA PDA's if I was have a stab in the dark at guessing why this version's being released.

I think I'll have more luck and use out of getting linux running on my x50v :-)

transcout

It's already running on XDA2's, so that would probably be a better place to test it. The emulators are usually a cut-down version of the final release anyway.... Look at the Wm2003 ones...

blutrane

its what's on the inside that counts aye? I have used the emulator quite a bit. here is my take

- WM5 looks the same as WM 2003

yes many UI elements are the same or identical the only real face lift here are the soft keys which i think is a good idea

- no true vga in WM5 w/ out hax

this one is a no brainier. if windows mobile 5 used true vga many people (myself included) would complain that everything is too small. this is because of the high density dpi (or whatever they call it) basically cramming more pixels into a smaller space. that's why text looks so clear etc..

- under the hood

i dont think making applications will be any easier or harder then in past iterations. visual studio 2005 interacts with smart devices much like visual studio 2003 did. ( yes its still buggy ). However developing games and porting applications ( like games :P ) will be made easier with direct 3D mobile and direct draw ( combined make directX )

evC++ 4.0 still works as well i think they are trying to phase out evC++ with visual studio .net 2005 it probably wont be totally phased out until the next iteration of windows mobile (like eVB maybe .... i hope not). I like the direct 3D solution because it will work on non hardware accelerated pocket pc's and hardware accelerated ppcs ( like the x50v )

i would say this going to be a great upgrade : many new features without a big learning curve and many new fun apps , hopefully :)

Albert Silver

Originally Posted by blutrane

- no true vga in WM5 w/ out hax this one is a no brainier. if windows mobile 5 used true vga many people (myself included) would complain that everything is too small. this is because of the high density dpi (or whatever they call it) basically cramming more pixels into a smaller space. that's why text looks so clear etc..

I don't agree with this reasoning. I'm more a power to the user guy. As far as I'm concerned, it's no different than having multiple resolutions on a desktop monitor. I enjoy 1280x768 yet know people who prefer 800x600 on a monitor of the same size. Let the user decide.

Albert

pdanewb

Originally Posted by blutrane

i dont think making applications will be any easier or harder then in past iterations. visual studio 2005 interacts with smart devices much like visual studio 2003 did. ( yes its still buggy ). However developing games and porting applications ( like games :P ) will be made easier with direct 3D mobile and direct draw ( combined make directX )

There is no direct draw in direct3d mobile. DD is being phased out. I have had a brief look at it and I believe sprites in direct3d is the only way to do 2d, but then I havnt tried it. I'm excited about the release here anyway.

blutrane

@albert silver : this is not the same as changing your desktop resolution because both standard WM vga and true VGA are running the device at the same resolution. it is just being interpolated differently. I'm not too sure about the screens in pdas but my guess is its stuck on one resolution. as for letting the consumer decide.. well SE_VGA is great option for those who want to bump it up to true vga :)

@pda newb : you are right about direct draw being phased out.... same thing with direct3D many of these APIs are used in directx ( i think ...) however this is relevant to the desktop world.

For windows mobile the new APIs are being described as direct3d mobile and direct draw .. not directx .. funny cause this seems like a step backwards... welcome to the pocket pc world where everything that's old is new again and where folks wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people

- Andy

zim2dive

Originally Posted by blutrane

@albert silver : this is not the same as changing your desktop resolution because both standard WM vga and true VGA are running the device at the same resolution. it is just being interpolated differently. I'm not too sure about the screens in pdas but my guess is its stuck on one resolution. as for letting the consumer decide.. well SE_VGA is great option for those who want to bump it up to true vga :)

It really is effectively the same thing as monitor resolution.... perhaps more like LCD resolution... there are a fixed/max # of pixels on VGA device, and the user can select to have a 1:1 mapping (tiny for those that don't like it), or a 2:1 mapping (sharper version of QVGA for those that like it, and romper-roomish in size to those that don't).

What would be nice is true OS level support... something that would display VGA aware progs in 640x480 (if the user enabled this res) and scale the graphics and screen tap mapping to non VGA happy progs, so the user does not have to soft reset to switch back and forth (ie. launch some progs under ozvga and the screen displays just fine, but all input expects to be mapped from the upper left quadrant)

Mike

Keitherlyn

I would like to see OS support for VGA also. However, I would be happy with having to the use the hack but also having the option of changing the icon and text size (of menus and the today screen). Does anyone know if this will be possible?

blutrane

Originally Posted by Keitherlyn

I would like to see OS support for VGA also. However, I would be happy with having to the use the hack but also having the option of changing the icon and text size (of menus and the today screen). Does anyone know if this will be possible?

you can't change the size the icons but you can change the text size of your today screen (and apps) even in windows mobile 2003 SE

simply go to start - > settings - >

then in settings click the second tab [ system ]

inside system pick [ screen ] and in [ screen ] click the third tab text size from there you can adjust your text size ... not really obvious huh? :P

edit: oops you wanted to change menu text size... nope cant do that in windows mobile 5 either

blutrane

Originally Posted by zim2dive

It really is effectively the same thing as monitor resolution.... perhaps more like LCD resolution... there are a fixed/max # of pixels on VGA device, and the user can select to have a 1:1 mapping (tiny for those that don't like it), or a 2:1 mapping (sharper version of QVGA for those that like it, and romper-roomish in size to those that don't). What would be nice is true OS level support... something that would display VGA aware progs in 640x480 (if the user enabled this res) and scale the graphics and screen tap mapping to non VGA happy progs, so the user does not have to soft reset to switch back and forth (ie. launch some progs under ozvga and the screen displays just fine, but all input expects to be mapped from the upper left quadrant) Mike

maybe i misunderstand but HI_RES_AWARE apps do run at 640x480 tcpmp (beta player) is one example i can think of, pocket IE is another

ie. beta player wont run at a higher resolution when launched in true VGA mode

- Andy

pdanewb

blutrane: I see i was incorrect there. Got mixed up somehow - I think because there is no managed direct draw. nice to know anyway I'm going to use it in my app now lol.

zim2dive

Originally Posted by blutrane

maybe i misunderstand but HI_RES_AWARE apps do run at 640x480 tcpmp (beta player) is one example i can think of, pocket IE is another ie. beta player wont run at a higher resolution when launched in true VGA mode - Andy

I guess what I'm suggesting is that the user have the option of configuring the unit such that any NON hres aware proggy have its I/O mapped 2:1 when the suer is in a "hacked" state...

ie. right now I can run with ozvga and thus see much more "real estate" when browsing, doing calendar stuff, etc.. but apps that aren't HRA have the uppler left quadrant problem.

If I run "standard" screen, then I suppose yes, HRA apps will expand, but i general I get less "real estate" to work with on 90% of the progs.

Nutshell, if the OS could detect

- the size a prog expects (VGA or QVGA)
- the user's selected display size (ok, this option isn't OS supported but should be)
- it could easily map at either a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio any screen click.

This should NOT be a tough thing to do at the OS level.

Mike

blutrane

Originally Posted by zim2dive

I guess what I'm suggesting is that the user have the option of configuring the unit such that any NON hres aware proggy have its I/O mapped 2:1 when the suer is in a "hacked" state... ie. right now I can run with ozvga and thus see much more "real estate" when browsing, doing calendar stuff, etc.. but apps that aren't HRA have the uppler left quadrant problem. If I run "standard" screen, then I suppose yes, HRA apps will expand, but i general I get less "real estate" to work with on 90% of the progs. Nutshell, if the OS could detect - the size a prog expects (VGA or QVGA) - the user's selected display size (ok, this option isn't OS supported but should be) - it could easily map at either a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio any screen click. This should NOT be a tough thing to do at the OS level. Mike

actually this is already done. But only in the default VGA mode ..

if an application is HI_RES_AWARE it will draw 1:1 or VGA

if the app is QVGA or not HI_RES_AWARE it will pixel double or draw 2:1.

However the user can not specify if an app is HI_RES_AWARE which is crappy (btw i write it like that because that's the constant used in the code to detect if vga resolution should be forced)

I have a file though (that i found on this forum :) ) that can force an app to run as though it was HI_RES_AWARE but as far as i can see you cant force an app in true vga mode to pixel double so that it doesn't occupy 1/4 of the screen or crash =(

It seems though that this is the way VGA on windows mobile will be supported for better or for worse. It probably isn't tough to do on an OS level but I guess M$ feels they don't have to… laziness / bottom line strikes again

Keitherlyn

Sounds like WM5 isnt that big of an improvement over 2003 vga wise. The only program i really want to run in VGA is PIE. With the other ones, QVGA is fine. Is there a way to get PIE only to run in VGA? I have been reading these fourms for about 5 months and dont recall seeing anything about it. anyone here know anything?

awdark

Maybe Dell would be really nice to us people with good eyes and put an extra thing in the control panel... "Resolution" and let us switch from Qvga to VGA (maybe even with HI_RES_AWARE style exclusions) similar to the way there is a Screen Rotation control panel app.

Can hope cant I?