Gamepad for Axim? - Page 2

ghettoknot · 08-11-03, 04:41 PM

aardwolf,

Based on recent post, I am assuming that you tried the null modem idea. I already stated why that wont work. However, I am curious to know if you tried something similar to my last post.

I think that a direct connection will work, provided that the software works. Do you think that the software is implemented in a way that will not work on the Axim?

From this WM 2003 mess, it is obvious that the OS is different on the Axim due to hardware issues. It might be possible that Dell tweaked the OS to only see things via ActivSync. However, you have to wonder how the serial gps units are working with the Axim if this is the case.

I wish you still had the hardware to do the test. It would have been beneficial to us both if you discovered that my theory was correct.

I really, want to develop a driver so I can use my existing sync cable and my USB controller. It would save me $35, and the agony associated with the wait.

Again, I challenge anyone out there who knows about the software.

deftech · 08-11-03, 06:40 PM

Just a note that the Dell Serial Cable that is available for the Axim has a TTL convertor built in-line. It's not a complex circuit....just a simple 14-pin chip....got several of them laying right here as a matter of fact. But anyhow, because this is built into the Dell cable, it allows a standard serial device to communicate properly with the Axim.

Also, if you have checked out Gomadic's cell phone cables.....this is also what their ComCube basically is....it allows for the conversion of the serial signal to TTL level.

DennisFranz · 08-11-03, 06:59 PM

There has to be a way.

In this thread:
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/show...&threadid=18617
The snap on keyboard is described as a light unit. I wonder if it is just a comm chip and a matrix of key switches to send to the Axim. I see there are drivers for this so there may be a little more to it.

If anyone is bold enough to crack one open and check out the electronics. Heck maybe we can pull a McCauthen and pool money for someone to buy one, crack it open and reverse engineer the damn thing to make it connect to various REAL game controllers like a PS2, XBox, etc.

Only problem I see is it may be limited to X-Y inputs of ON-OFF vs some pot reading showing an angle etc.. More like a pushbutton switch vs say something like a driving wheel or percentage of acceleration on a pedal. Those that have tried this may understand my meaning

Tom61 · 08-11-03, 07:20 PM

If someone would buy me one of those keyboards, I'd gladly take it apart and figure out how it works, and how to hook up other stuff to it. I have a fair bit of electronics knowledge, and help run www.arcadecontrols.com a site dedicated to hooking virtually anything to arcade controls, much of the knowledge I have from that site would be usefull in hacking the snap on keyboard.

Ghettoknot, people have already tried the straight through adapter by itself, as it's required to use the Radio Shack Null Modem adapter.

Earlier thread about the stinger (tells what has and hasn't been tried):
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showt...threadid=12740

ghettoknot · 08-11-03, 08:06 PM

Ok guys... if no one successfully used the stinger driver on an Axim then this tell me that either the hardware implementation is wrong of the software is killing us.

Has anyone gotten this thing to work on the Axim?

I actually think it is the software at this point. I am going to be done with school in two days and plan on further researching how to write a driver for the Axim.

My goal is to get my USB Gravis Gamepad Pro to work. If it works I will post the driver and the instructions. I am going for something simple like an adapter between the two cables that you can get at Radio Shack.

I really don't like the PS2 idea because there is no easy way to connect it to the PC that I know of. This means I'll have to splice my $30 controller. That makes no sense and will probably fall apart if not secured properly. It also seem crazy when I have a $9 controller that has a usable interface.

Wish me luck, and if any of you find some good resources please post them to the site. It seems like everyone wants this but no one is doing much about it.

I'll give it a shot, but I will need help. I know you guy wont dish out any cash on this (I don't think I would either), but tech documents and reference material are a good start.

deftech · 08-12-03, 01:15 PM

I've tried the USB Gravis, but could never get a good connection. I think one problem is that no matter what, the Axim connector port is a serial interface.....as is with most every PPC. Even though it has a "USB" cradle, it still connects to the Axim through a serial interface. Think how slow all those file transfers through Activesync are.

Tom61 · 08-12-03, 09:38 PM

Quote:

My goal is to get my USB Gravis Gamepad Pro to work. If it works I will post the driver and the instructions. I am going for something simple like an adapter between the two cables that you can get at Radio Shack.

You can't do that. USB is divided into 'host' and 'device'. You can't connect a host to a host (for example PC to PC) without a special chip inbetween. You also can't directly connect two USB devices together (such as Axim and a game pad) either, and I've never heard of a chip that works as an inbetween. If such a chip existed, it would likely be quite expensive in small quanties.

RS232 (what the serial cable is) and firewire can work device to device or host to host since they're designed to do that, USB is designed only for connecting devices to computers.

Someone Else · 08-12-03, 11:24 PM

I don't know whether I'm just reiterating what somebody has already said,
or whether my idea is just stupid, but it seems like the pulling apart
of a Dell snap-on keyboard is the best bet.

Admittedly this will only allow for on/off connections with a
controller (which will also have to be pulled apart), but surely it is
possible to rig a direct electrical connection between a controller
and some of the keys on the keyboard.

The Axim will recognise the keyboard as a standard device but the
controller will be the activator for some of the keys. This seems
like a very inelegant solution but it does also seem possible.

With a bit of trial and error this should work with the majority of
games that allow for customisable keys.

I hope I make sense.

P.S. Might turn out a bit expensive though.

Someone Else · 08-12-03, 11:26 PM

Just something else I thought of. The snap-on keyboard could be
put back together with a little connector on the side so that the
keyboard still functions normally, but some keys have the option
of being activated by keyboard or controller.

Might be a bit more of a viable option that way.

ghettoknot · 09-02-03, 11:48 PM

I wasn't as productive on this project as I wanted to be. It took me about a week to get the hardware that I need. Currently, I have the Gravis controller, a USB female to female adapter, and the development software from Microsoft.

The big delay was with the adapter. When I went out of town I had to dial-up and was only able to find suppliers in NY and Canada. That sucked because the shipping was 3 times the cost of the adapter. Luckily, I found a Fry's Electronics and they had exactly what I needed. I think I paid $4.00 for it.

Now I need to find some source code to reverse engineer. If anyone has any info I would appreciate it. All of the books that I came across of for making "Hello World" programs or database apps.

I will try to work on this off and on, but I school has started for me. Any help would be appreciated.

Tom61 · 09-03-03, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Currently, I have the Gravis controller, a USB female to female adapter, and the development software from Microsoft.

Umm, maybe you didn't see this earlier, but:

Quote:

You can't do that. USB is divided into 'host' and 'device'. You can't connect a host to a host (for example PC to PC) without a special chip inbetween. You also can't directly connect two USB devices together (such as Axim and a game pad) either, and I've never heard of a chip that works as an inbetween. If such a chip existed, it would likely be quite expensive in small quanties.

RS232 (what the serial cable is) and firewire can work device to device or host to host since they're designed to do that, USB is designed only for connecting devices to computers.

Have fun anyway, I doubt you're going to listen to me anyway. :(

deftech · 09-03-03, 11:20 PM

Agreed....the only gamepad that has a shot at working is one that uses a serial interface. I can guarantee you (and have tried it just to make sure) that a USB gamepad has no shot at getting a connection with the Axim. Also, I don't think a gameport controller will work either.....unless there is possibly a way to rewire it to a serial connection.

Anyhow the Stinger (serial port) gamepad is the best choice for experimenting.

ghettoknot · 09-04-03, 01:34 AM

So has anyone actually gotten the Axim to work with the Stinger? From what I can tell the answer is no. Also, are their any vendors that are selling controllers for the Axim. Again, the answer is no.

In other words, we need to band together if we actually want a controller that works. I find it hard to believe that my idea will not work, but there is a chance that you guys are right. However, you must realize that there is a chance that I am right.

If you two cant get this to work with RS232 then I find it funny that you think that I cant get it to work with USB.

Anyway, what I asked for in my last post was reference material that outlines how to make a driver. However, I have received criticisms. How beneficial is that to the cause.

Regardless, if I work with RS232 or USB I will have to write a driver. I'm just stumped when it comes to documentation, and was merely asking for assistance with this.

Tom61 · 09-04-03, 05:51 PM

Quote:

However, I have received criticisms. How beneficial is that to the cause.

We weren't criticising you. We're just telling you that, because of the nature of USB, what you're attempting to do is impossible. It's not just a driver problem, it is inherent in the way USB is designed. USB is split into 'device' (for example your Axim, keyboards, mice etc.) which is designed to connect to a 'host' device (a PC, mac, etc.). Hosts can't connect to hosts directly, and devices can't connect to devices directly. Therefore you can't connect a USB gamepad (a 'device') to the Axim (also a 'device').

Serial does not have this limitation, because it was designed to connect terminals to mainframes.

Quote:

Regardless, if I work with RS232 or USB I will have to write a driver. I'm just stumped when it comes to documentation, and was merely asking for assistance with this.

Unfortunately, when it comes to PPC, Microsoft is pretty much the only place to get that information. You'll need to get the 'Microsoft Windows CE Platform Builder' from them, which is quite expensive to register. :(

Edit: In case you were wondering, the adapter you bought is for making a USB A to A cable into a USB extension cord (so USB stuff can be farther away from your PC), not for connecting device to device.

ghettoknot · 09-04-03, 07:07 PM

I already got the software from Microsoft's site for free, and found some documentation on developing drivers. It really isn't informative.

I haven't been back to the site in a few weeks. When I get more time I will look at this again. Maybe I missed something. It is easy to miss something when you are skimming the info on a plane.

Anyway, the hardware issue is defiantly debatable. That is why I am trying to let it die down. You have your theories and I have mine.

If there were better documentation then I may be able to prove you guys wrong. However, all of the info that I came across outlines RS232.

Since I am having a hard enough time finding anything that remotely talks about writing a windows driver, I may have to take the plunge and go serial.

Just need some good source code. The rest is a piece of cake.