skimask

I've finally got pictures and your diagram posted on my webpage.

www.ndak.net/~jdgrotte

It's under the AXIMBOB link on the left. And keep me posted if you figure anything out about the connector.
As always, more to come in days ahead...

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Emmtee

Originally Posted by skimask

I've finally got pictures and your diagram posted on my webpage. www.ndak.net/~jdgrotte It's under the AXIMBOB link on the left. And keep me posted if you figure anything out about the connector. As always, more to come in days ahead...

nice, but beware of errors in picture 1:
- PIN1 is on the WRONG SIDE!
- The connector has just 36 PINS, not 38

And please change the "Emmtee has found" into "users from Aximsite have found": I just collected and verified most of the information.

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skimask

Originally Posted by Emmtee

nice, but beware of errors in picture 1: - PIN1 is on the WRONG SIDE! - The connector has just 36 PINS, not 38 And please change the "Emmtee has found" into "users from Aximsite have found": I just collected and verified most of the information.

So, you're starting with Pin 1 from the 'right' side of the Axim them? I read your diagram as Pin 1 being on the same side of the Axim as the wireless/record buttons.
I suppose it doesn't really matter how the pins are number anyways since this is a breakout board.
We'll figure it out eventually.
I'm still trying to find the cheapest place to get .031" PCBs done. Standard is .062, but as I've stated, the adapter won't fit in the connector without doing some bending.
How many do you suppose I should have made?

Webpage taken care of...

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Emmtee

Originally Posted by skimask

So, you're starting with Pin 1 from the 'right' side of the Axim them? I read your diagram as Pin 1 being on the same side of the Axim as the wireless/record buttons. I suppose it doesn't really matter how the pins are number anyways since this is a breakout board. We'll figure it out eventually. I'm still trying to find the cheapest place to get .031" PCBs done. Standard is .062, but as I've stated, the adapter won't fit in the connector without doing some bending. How many do you suppose I should have made? Webpage taken care of...

It matters where pin 1 is - especially if somebody else tries to replicate the wiring!

on your PCB:
why now just dremel the thickness on one side and use very very thin copper to establish realiable connections between connector and PCB on the "thinned" side?

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skimask

Originally Posted by Emmtee

It matters where pin 1 is - especially if somebody else tries to replicate the wiring! on your PCB: why now just dremel the thickness on one side and use very very thin copper to establish realiable connections between connector and PCB on the "thinned" side?

Pin 1 - well what I mean is that anybody messing around with a breakout board would have enough knowledge to know what pin is actually where no matter what the numbering system is. But I'm working on fixing my schematic's and board design to reflect the corrections.

thinned PCB - that sounds like it's got 'fry my Axim' written all over it!!! I'm still working on the .031 thick PCB option...

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Emmtee

Originally Posted by skimask

Pin 1 - well what I mean is that anybody messing around with a breakout board would have enough knowledge to know what pin is actually where no matter what the numbering system is. But I'm working on fixing my schematic's and board design to reflect the corrections. thinned PCB - that sounds like it's got 'fry my Axim' written all over it!!! I'm still working on the .031 thick PCB option...

about the thinned PCB:

Code:

PCB Connector cccccccccccc <- thin wire-thread ================ +++++++++++++ ================ +++++++++++++ <- lower row ===================== ######## ===================== ######## ===================== ######## ===================== ######## ===================== ######## +++++++++++++ <- upper row +++++++++++++

the wire beeing carefully soldered to both PCB and connector-pins
(if you like you could try solder-bridging directly)
btw - one side of the PCB will stay the correct diameter anyway and have the original copper-coating so the construction should provide reasonable mechanical characteristics.

Regarding the incorrect PIN1 issue:
feel free to replace the image online with the attached one, showing the axim docked - that's how my schematic is intended.

I've attached a second image showing the dockinstation's inside.
The battery-charger is partially visible, so you can repilcate the PCB's position inside the dockingstation (it's like looking from the dockingstations back).

Clicking on the thumbnail will enlarge the corresponding image

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pctechohio

you all do know Dell has a X50v VGA out cable on thier website I have one works great and has place to plug power into it too
Chuck

Emmtee

Originally Posted by pctechohio

you all do know Dell has a X50v VGA out cable on thier website I have one works great and has place to plug power into it too Chuck

Yeah, we know that, but as a matter of fact there's no serial cable available - and that was the primary reason to investigate the plug.

Second reason is probably the high price for any cable bought from Dell - not to forget the soldering-fun :)

PS:
I personally don't want a VGA-out but a TV-out.
VGA out is only interesting for me once I get 1024x768 or better from the device - using a beamer at VGA would have been sufficient several years ago, but isn't today (at least not for my presentations).

For me the only interesing aspect of axim's VGA out is, that it provides power to three signal pins - I'm wondering how much I could drain from there to power my external GPS mouse (but to say it with skimask's words: that idea has "FRY MY AXIM" written all over it ;)

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skimask

[QUOTE=Emmtee]about the thinned PCB:
---cut---
the wire beeing carefully soldered to both PCB and connector-pins
(if you like you could try solder-bridging directly)
btw - one side of the PCB will stay the correct diameter anyway and have the original copper-coating so the construction should provide reasonable mechanical characteristics.

Regarding the incorrect PIN1 issue:
feel free to replace the image online with the attached one, showing the axim docked - that's how my schematic is intended.

I've attached a second image showing the dockinstation's inside.
The battery-charger is partially visible, so you can repilcate the PCB's position inside the dockingstation (it's like looking from the dockingstations back).

Solder bridging - Wow...that would be some good solder bridging! And probably take forever to keep clean of bridges across pins! The pins themselves are only .026" wide on .040" centers. Leaves about .022" of empty space between the pins to fill with solder!!!...accidentally of course. The bridges themselves (the copper wire) would roughly be made from solid 28ga wire held in place perfectly by a steady hand. And the thinning cut on the PCB would have to be uniform across the board. Not a lot to ask is it? :)

Since I haven't found a place that makes .031" PCB's for a relatively good price, I think I'm going to have to stick with the bending method on .062" PCB. Of course, I'll document that process fully when I get the boards (more on that in a minute).

As far as the numbering scheme goes, I'll stick with your way of doing it since it's already documented and who knows how many people are already counting the pins in that direction anyways. And I'll post the pics on my page when I get a chance.

I have to go out of town for a few days (funeral) so I won't get the PCBs ordered this weekend. I'll probably get them ordered sometime next week and have them in hand shortly afterwards...then I can send you a few to play with.
Cost? Don't know for sure yet...but as I've stated elsewhere in these forums, I'm not in it for the money, just the development. A quick guess on leaning towards the high side of an estimate, for 14 of them, would be around around $9USD/each (plus shipping of course, an envelope with cardboard?). If I had 140 of them made, the estimate per board drops down to $2USD/each plus shipping. Large quantities (say above 1,000) brings the cost down to about $1USD/each. And really massive quantities, down below $1USD/each. I don't think I would get that many anyways. You might be able to do better over there, I don't know. As usual, the problem with small quantities is the initial tooling for a batch.
At any rate, let me know how many (if any) you want...
In fact, anybody who wants one, let me know...email is on my webpage...

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Emmtee

Just an information ahead of schematic:

I have measured resistance and voltage at the axim-pins while "on" and "off" - here the findings:

----
PIN 25 is special - it provides a maximum current of 33,6mA (while shorted to GND - better don't try this at home)
PINS 26 and 27 provide a maximum of just 2,3mA when shorted to GND.

----
Pins 18 and 19 seem to be NC (not connected)

----
Pins 28 and 29 (sync) run up to 50mA when shorted, but video either fades white or black - a safe maximum current is around 2mA.

The video-out pins run up to 4,6mA when shorted to GND, but the video image is not affected.

----
Pins 8,9,13,14 are likely to be really the serial handshake functions, their voltages differ when the X50v is ON or OFF!

Code:

Pin | Fnkt. | V(off) 14 DTR 3,4V 13 DSR 2,8V 9 RTS 2,8V 8 CTS 2,8V

-----
Pin 7 seems to be something special - it has a 1M resistance to GND which seems to be connected to some small capacitor inside the X50v.

-----
Pins 6 and 5 ALWAYS output roughly 1,7V, but with just max. 18µA when grounded!.
Grounding one of them did not cause the other one to drop voltage -> conclusion: they aren't internally connected together!

=====
Summary: I tried grounding EVERY available pin and measured the "shorted" mA|µA - my Axim X50v survived that action, voltage levels are good on all functions.

PS: here a cross-link to images showing my serial GPS cable:
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showt...424#post576424

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skimask

Originally Posted by Emmtee

Just an information ahead of schematic: I have measured resistance and voltage at the axim-pins while "on" and "off" - here the findings: ---- PIN 25 is special - it provides a maximum current of 33,6mA (while shorted to GND - better don't try this at home) PINS 26 and 27 provide a maximum of just 2,3mA when shorted to GND. ---- Pins 18 and 19 seem to be NC (not connected) ---- Pins 28 and 29 (sync) run up to 50mA when shorted, but video either fades white or black - a safe maximum current is around 2mA. The video-out pins run up to 4,6mA when shorted to GND, but the video image is not affected. ---- Pins 8,9,13,14 are likely to be really the serial handshake functions, their voltages differ when the X50v is ON or OFF! Code: Pin | Fnkt. | V(off) 14 DTR 3,4V 13 DSR 2,8V 9 RTS 2,8V 8 CTS 2,8V ----- Pin 7 seems to be something special - it has a 1M resistance to GND which seems to be connected to some small capacitor inside the X50v. ----- Pins 6 and 5 ALWAYS output roughly 1,7V, but with just max. 18µA when grounded!. Grounding one of them did not cause the other one to drop voltage -> conclusion: they aren't internally connected together! ===== Summary: I tried grounding EVERY available pin and measured the "shorted" mA|µA - my Axim X50v survived that action, voltage levels are good on all functions. PS: here a cross-link to images showing my serial GPS cable: http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showt...424#post576424

WOW! You've got nuts!!! Everything you just posted does, in fact, have "FRY MY AXIM" written all over it!
Pin 8,9,13,14 - Logically, it sounds like you're right. The pins probably have pullups on them internally, although the 3.4v on DTR sounds a bit wierd.
Pin 7 - AC coupled audio in/out???
Pin 5 & 6 - floating inputs for something, detection? Sounds reasonable.
Other than that, don't know what to tell you until I get the PCBs made. And even then, I'll probably be too scared to do what you've done!

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Emmtee

Originally Posted by skimask

WOW! You've got nuts!!! Everything you just posted does, in fact, have "FRY MY AXIM" written all over it! Pin 8,9,13,14 - Logically, it sounds like you're right. The pins probably have pullups on them internally, although the 3.4v on DTR sounds a bit wierd. Pin 7 - AC coupled audio in/out??? Pin 5 & 6 - floating inputs for something, detection? Sounds reasonable. Other than that, don't know what to tell you until I get the PCBs made. And even then, I'll probably be too scared to do what you've done!

well, in fact i did MULTIPLE measurements - several exceeding multiple seconds... nothing failed - i'd say good engineering :)

pin 7 is no audio out, at least nothing showed up on my scope as I hooked it up while audio was playing.

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ssampath

I was trying to make a cable to connect the x50v to my Sony Ericssion
phone - to get on the internet. Is is sufficient to connect the Tx/Rx
pins only or do I need to (identify being the problem and) connect the
RTS and CTS as well ?

Pardon my hardware ignorance !

Emmtee

Originally Posted by ssampath

I was trying to make a cable to connect the x50v to my Sony Ericssion phone - to get on the internet. Is is sufficient to connect the Tx/Rx pins only or do I need to (identify being the problem and) connect the RTS and CTS as well ? Pardon my hardware ignorance !

How good that I have a J70 - and that I already used it with a regular RX/TX RS2323 cable which I built - so a direct connection should work perfectly well as long as both devices are able to process the data fast enough - if you experience problems then try adding the handshake lines too - but AFAIK the aren't even available at the sony phone - probably just software handshake

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skimask

I'm back from my trip finally...
Getting back to the AXIMBOB project...looking for input...
I've got 2 boards designed, one is wide and short, the other is kinda square-ish.
Any preference on which one would work better for prototyping?
I prefer the wide/short one 'cause a guy can easily hook up an IDC ribbon cable to it.
But the square-ish one doesn't hang out near as far, not nearly as easy to break off.

Also, which version of the MAX232 series chips do you think would be best to level-translate the signals? There's sooo many to choose from. My opinion on which one would work the best may not be the best answer overall.

And for anybody else out there...
Does anybody else besides myself want a few of these breakout PCBs? Looking to get a rough quantity so I can order up a bunch of them. The more, the cheaper...

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