Floater_

Ok, I'm SO confused.

I bought a minisync from brando.hk for my Axim x50v. It works just fine, except it only charges when my axim is fully charged. If it is lower, it starts draining the battery!

Now I've read next to 20+ threads about this issue, and I'm really confused.

My questions are :
1. How do I know what cable can sync AND charge?

2. Why does this happen? Why is it draining the batts?

3. Is the only way to buy the Dell x50v sync/charger? Does anyone have experience with that working as it should? (ie. charging the unit from a "dead" condition?)

4. How can I find out what car charger will work? I've read about all this 5V+.25%V car to USB adapters but if my minisync doesn't charge with my computer, it wouldn't charge with my car either right? Which adapters will work?

Thanks for your answers, and I hope I can finally understand whats goingon.

Ceril

Originally Posted by Floater_

Ok, I'm SO confused. I bought a minisync from brando.hk for my Axim x50v. It works just fine, except it only charges when my axim is fully charged. If it is lower, it starts draining the battery! Now I've read next to 20+ threads about this issue, and I'm really confused. My questions are : 1. How do I know what cable can sync AND charge? 2. Why does this happen? Why is it draining the batts? 3. Is the only way to buy the Dell x50v sync/charger? Does anyone have experience with that working as it should? (ie. charging the unit from a "dead" condition?) 4. How can I find out what car charger will work? I've read about all this 5V+.25%V car to USB adapters but if my minisync doesn't charge with my computer, it wouldn't charge with my car either right? Which adapters will work? Thanks for your answers, and I hope I can finally understand whats goingon.

Hello Floater and welcome to the site and all.

The threads are a bit confusing indeed. Just understand this - it has almost nothing to do with the cord you're using...I say it only with the sole reservation that some cheap cables often are small and can be problematic in and of themselves.

now the big problem is the source of the power. Synching is one thing and I am not responding to the action of synching - but rather the power element.

The x50v is a power hog. Therefore you have to give power to it in huge amounts (relative to other PDAs). Right now - for min-cables there is not one that has been reported who can pull enough juice from the computer's USB ports to charge the unit. period. There was one claim by PPC tech that they had a solution by using a Y cable (thereby getting juice from 2 USB ports simultaneously - but on further testing it turned out incorrect). Since an USB port puts out only 0.5A maximum (sort of - the specs of a USB port are not so uniform as to make this bold statement, but lets use it as a rule of thumb)and so it will start a reverse charge - or sucking your unit dry.

It sucks it dry because....well, think of the electircity as water. The volts is the power that the water wants to flow and the amperage is the amount of water per unit time you have to flow under that power. The cable that comes with the PDA out of the box puts out a huge 2A (4 times more than what your USB port is)....flow is in that direction.

There are other more complicated concerns as well including the fact that the engineering of the charging unit of the Axim has actually 2 sets - one at 5 v and another at 5.4v, I believe...but seeing as I am not an expert in that I can't tell you if there is a direct reason involved with that fact.

In regards to the other options you have - there are. You can get an USB wall charger - one side of the minisynch hits the PDA and the USB part into a wall adapter and you can get between 0.5A-1A (and maybe even 2A) from that. There are simialr "heads" for car chargers of 850 mA, 1A and 2A which others report do the job quite nicely.

I think that the point is that right now there is no truly mobile since cable solution for charging from the computer and synching with it.

uzziah0

I have an X5, but I still do not rely on my usb sync cable for charging my Axim. If it it not at 50% or more I don't use the usb sync cable (unless I'm heading home and can put it in the cradle at home).

When I know I will need to use the Axim and won't be able to charge it up at home, I take the power cord from the cradle (the X5s just unplugs from the cradle and can be plugged in the X5 directly) and use that while away.

Floater_

Thanks to both for your replies, I think I understand now. :)

Still, my reason for purchasing a minisync was so that it would be more portable than the power chords that come with the x50v.

Does anyone know for sure of any wall chargers that would work with the minisync cable? I've heard the boxwave versacharger doesn't, is this true?

JakeRich

Ceril has it pretty close. The X50v is a power hog. VGA and brighter screen, plus faster processor. Anyway, it can take up to 1000 mA to charge from a dead 1100mAh battery, full bright, processor high, Axim On. That draw increases to 1500mA with a 2200 mAh battery, all at 5.4v. Dell knew the power requirements, so they provided a wall charger that provides 5.4v, 2410mA of power. But for USB use, they faced a problem: USB specs only require that the USB support 500mA of draw, at 5v, which is not suffient to charge AND run. So, to solve the dilemma, they put in two different power input pins on the connector: One is for external power and assumes the Dell charger is connected, the other is for USB and assumes only 5v, 500mA is available. For the first set of pins, they enabled it to run and charge at the same time. For the second set of pins, they enabled it to run OR charge, but not both. To detect the difference, the X50 looks to see which set of pins has power. If the power is on the first set, it assumes external power is provided and enables run AND charge, but if the second set is the only one with power, it assumes run OR charge. To see this in action, put your X50 in the cradle, connect to a working USB port, but no to wall power. If the Axim is OFF, the charging light will come ON. If the Axim is ON, the charging light goes OFF. Now, plug in the external power to the cradle and see that the charging light is ON all the time, whether the Axim is on or off.

Now, along come third party folks who don't realize fully what and why Dell did what Dell did. They connect their USB cables to the EXTERNAL pins, making the X50 think it has external power and can run and charge. But the USB port can't provide the power demand, so nasty things happen--the screen may flicker from bright to dim if you have different brightness set for battery/external power and the battery may or may not charge, depending on the level of depletion. If the battery charge circuit demands more power than the USB can provide, it sees a shortfall in current and makes up for it by tapping the battery. In essence, you use the battery to charge the battery. The result is that the battery discharges faster when plugged in than when not!

So, right now I would say that there is NO cable that can guarantee to be able to charge and run at the same time, no matter what claims they make, because the problem is NOT the cable, it's the limitation on the USB port. I also suspect that at least some of the USB port problems that have been reported are caused by excessive power demands on the ports and inadequate overcurrent protection on the PC that fries the port.

Also, as Ceril said, one manufacturer tried to get around the problem by providing a two-headed cable to use two USB ports for power, but even that has proven unreliable because the overall draw can exceed even the power for two USB ports combined. I'm not sure going to three is going to solve the problem, either, as I suspect that manufacturers are cheating on the power demands at the USB ports as they provide more and more sockets. Consider a box with 8 USB ports. Theoretically that box should provide 4000mA or power, or 500 per port, to meet the specs. That's a heck of a lot of power! I suspect they are not providing that much power, counting on the fact that most USB devices draw a lot less than 500mA. But try connecting 8 Axims to that box and I suspect it will have problems.

So, my apology for the long post, but I hope that helps.

JakeRich

Addendum: on the wall units you asked about, the same power demand requirements apply. If the wall unit can reliably provide 1.5A at 5v or 5.4v, then it should work, but if it is only 850mA (or even less), it will most likely eventually be overcome.

Floater_

Thanks for the input :) Definately understand now.

But the question remains, I want to be sure when I buy a charger that it works properly, does anyone know of one that exists and works for the X50v? Ie, it does output at 5.4V for the USB snyc cable?

Pc-Mobile

Originally Posted by Floater_

Thanks for the input :) Definately understand now. But the question remains, I want to be sure when I buy a charger that it works properly, does anyone know of one that exists and works for the X50v? Ie, it does output at 5.4V for the USB snyc cable?

You SHOULD NOT use a USB Sync/Charge cable to charge X50 if it is ON.

With the problem so widely known I am surprised that many people are still trying to find a Sync/Charge (at the same time) cable.

My advice is: if a cable has such claim - avoid it.

Back to your question - most USB Car adapter or wall USB adapter should be adequate (with at least 850mA) ONLY IF it feeds current to the high current (5.4v) input, with at least a certain level of battery remaining. If the battery is near dead, you need an output of at lease 1.2A (for standard batterey) or 1.5A (for extended battery).

If you just want to charge it when it is off, the normal USB sync cable and the PC USB port (or any car/wall USB adapter) will do just fine.

uzziah0

USB is limited to 5V and pretty low amps (as far as the Axim is concerned), something like 850 mamps, where the Axim want something in the 2200 - 2400 mamps. So it is not really the cable you are using but the power limitations from USB.
I thought I saw a USB to PPC that had an external power source (which just plugs in to the wall). Can't remember where exactly, but one of the usb sync cable sellers had this. But, then again your back to the bigger power cord and you wanted to avoid that.

Floater_

So I guess the answer is to use a sync cable to sync, and an external charger + dell power dongle to charge.

That kind of ... well, blows, but I guess there isn't any other option.

thanks.

d0pefish

I modified my Brando so that it doesn't try to charge the Axim while it is on - therefore I have turned it into a Sync OR charge cable, the way Dell intended. :)

I posted a topic with instructions on how to do this:

http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=79985

...but noone has replied yet so I don't know if it's useful or not... :rolling:

But it works, makes the cable much more safe and reliable. :)

Pc-Mobile

Originally Posted by Floater_

So I guess the answer is to use a sync cable to sync, and an external charger + dell power dongle to charge. That kind of ... well, blows, but I guess there isn't any other option. thanks.

That would be my advice and there should be no issue.