Bigbop, will any usb hub do? or we have to get your GoldX model GXMU-102?
I have one 4-port usb-hub lying around, it has a Genesys Logic chip GL650USB.
All I need is to connect the USB-P & USB-N, gnd. Then provide a external 5v pwr to hub??? Please do let us know any finer details once we can start get the ball rolling.
Bigbop and others, really a BiG thanks for all the hardwork and sharing.
I believe alot of us is reading this thread, although not contributing (we don't want mess it up here!)
You should thank Adamabrown for the loan of the X51v board that I'm playing with. Now I'm going to see if I can re-solder the CPU back on...
Please remember that this work is all experimental. We have no real proof yet that connecting anything to the PXA270's USB host port will do anything. From what I saw with my X50v, Firmware release A02 had the USB host driver. I know nothing about what to do with an X51 series USB host driver.
As for experimenting with other USB hubs, go wild - as long as your hub meets the USB data line standard of 3.3v differential signals, I don't see why you can't try using it. Of course, you won't be able to use a 5v source from the Axim - becasue it doesn't have one. You should be able to use a 5v charger to drive both the Axim and the hub.
Personally, I wouldn't use the Axim's charger as it puts out 5.4v and the hub needs 5v - you could blow something - like the hub's internal 3.3v regulator - then you have a chance of 5v appearing on the USB data line which would be a bad thing. Please note that even though the chip spec says 5.5v is the max voltage - don't push it as you may regret it. The nominal supply voltage is 5v and that is what the chip should operate at.
Gump, i think you'll need an extra circuit, because i don't think the output from the circuits that we're trying to take the leads from on the 51v are *final* USB Host config. so there's a small transition circuit, then into your host lines on the hub (bigbop/afarre, feel free to correct me if i misunderstand)...
The "trasition circuit" is just the IC STF201-22.
This IC provides only three functions: termination, filtering, and ESD protection (See first lines of spec http://www.semtech.com/pc/downloadDocument.do?id=139).
If you see the circuit at the bottom of the spec first page, "termination" is just those 15Kohms resistors. They are not required because they are already provided by Axim.
"Noise filtering" is provided by those capacitors. If transmision line (from PDA to HUB) is short enough, twisting wires D+/D- should be enough for a 1.1 USB signal. Think it is almost like USB hub was built in Ax motherboard.
With such setup "ESD protection" could also be omitted, it is provided by the diodes and Bigbob is to add them inside Axim.
In brief:
If you "stick" USB hub to Axim, no driver circuit is required because more important circuit: pulldown resistors, are already provided by Axim.
Better if you add the ESD protection (2 diodes).
Then you only need to DIRECTLY take outside the Axim the signal pair D+/D-, because ground is alredy available at sync conector.
Personally, I wouldn't use the Axim's charger as it puts out 5.4v and the hub needs 5v - you could blow something - like the hub's internal 3.3v regulator - then you have a chance of 5v appearing on the USB data line which would be a bad thing. Please note that even though the chip spec says 5.5v is the max voltage - don't push it as you may regret it. The nominal supply voltage is 5v and that is what the chip should operate at
I only owned two powered hubs. They came with that common low quality chargers which provide more than 6v without load and more than 5.5v with load.
I think 5.4v PDA charger can be used as hub 5v input. Or just add a diode witch provides a constant drop voltage of 0.6v :approve:
I only owned two powered hubs. They came with that common low quality chargers which provide more than 6v without load and more than 5.5v with load.
I think 5.4v PDA charger can be used as hub 5v input. Or just add a diode witch provides a constant drop voltage of 0.6v :approve:
Or use an old germanium diode with a drop voltage of 0.3v
Yah... lots of heros on this thread that make usb host possible (including Adamabrown)
bigbop, good luck on your re-solder of CPU.
I have browsed the GL650usb pdf, however I have limited knowledge of usb protocol, so like to confirm with gurus.
So in summary: USB dataline are at 3.3V not 5V (USB-P and USB-N)?
(the idea I got from wikipedia)
Is X50V/X51V's usb dataline also at 3.3v?
In general, any USBHUB designed for PC use, would be safe on Axim?
Also I am using X50V,just wonder if there is a USB host driver package I can install, instead of going for the firmware A02? Also, you gurus have any idea where to get the device drivers for ppc (usb mouse etc)?
I think I will patiently follow up more updates here, as you usb gurus go on implementing, I probably can learn more from you.
ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the countless hours of probing, unsoldering!
Yah... lots of heros on this thread that make usb host possible (including Adamabrown)
bigbop, good luck on your re-solder of CPU.
I have browsed the GL650usb pdf, however I have limited knowledge of usb protocol, so like to confirm with gurus.
So in summary: USB dataline are at 3.3V not 5V (USB-P and USB-N)?
(the idea I got from wikipedia)
Is X50V/X51V's usb dataline also at 3.3v?
In general, any USBHUB designed for PC use, would be safe on Axim?
Also I am using X50V,just wonder if there is a USB host driver package I can install, instead of going for the firmware A02? Also, you gurus have any idea where to get the device drivers for ppc (usb mouse etc)?
I think I will patiently follow up more updates here, as you usb gurus go on implementing, I probably can learn more from you.
ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the countless hours of probing, unsoldering!
We could start with "mass storage".
Deje mass storage driver works with my Ratoc CF, it should work with any USB host driver.
We could also try mass storage and HID (mouse and kb) drivers from Ratoc.
When using a mouse you will also need a mouse pointer, Deje and Nyditot pointers work fine.
Other known drivers:
eGalax driver for touchscreen: it works fine with Ratoc.
WebCam driver: not tested yet, see thread: http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=140786
Printer: I have only seen a link at Twin Paradox site to some Cannon printer
Well, trying to help, I started searching for info about USB drivers. Here's what I found...
Originally Posted by http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=397963
Yes, it does - Windows Mobile has supported the HID (human interface - like mouse and keyboards) and MSC (mass storage) profiles since Pocket PC 2002. However, the reference drivers are neither as robust nor comprehensive as those in XP. Also, the actual drivers shipped are almost always modified by manufacturers. Worse, not all devices conform fully with USB spec.
This leaves us right back where we started - which devices will actually work with the Loox and other USB-host enabled PDAs is still hit and miss. FWIW, you can try these drivers to replace the Loox drivers:
They actually have far wider compatibility than the original drivers. Make sure you make a backup of your data and registry (especially the registry!) before installing these, as an uninstall will wipe out your registry entries required for usb host.
About Ratoc and Webcam drivers that is what I said in my previous post.
See I have an open thread requesting people to test someone of the few supported cameras.
About host driver it is not just a matter of files but also some registry keys.
Well, I brought the USB host signals out to the sync connector and connected my 2 port hub - nothing. I'll have to check to see if I miswired the + & - datalines.
One thing I noticed was there is no signal (0v) on the USB host lines when the PDA is on. That seemed strange. I would think that at least one line would be above 0v.
The good part of this is that the test pads are in the exact same spots on both the X50 and X51 series units.
I've written a short document but adding photos increased it's size to 2.5MB so I can't upload it here. I'll have to stick it ona free hosting site somwhere.
UPDATE:
- YUP got the lines reversed. fix it Tuesday
I also checked my laptop's USB host data lines - they're sitting just above 0v.
If I pull the D+ line high through a resistor - Windows tells me there is an unrecognized USB device out there.
I'll have to try the same thing with WM2003
Update-update:
Fixed the wires but still no-go. Installed older Ratoc drivers - nada (sigh)
Hello all, I am new here, but have had some decent experience with soldering, electronics, Oscilloscopes, Logic Analyzers, etc. I was looking at the FCC's pictures, and after some editing, was able to see that the pads (in the groups of 4) on the side of the board had faint points (like the had wires soldered, but then were cut off), and thought they might be USB HOST related. Oh, btw, Out of memory, look at Cypress's USB selection. I believe they hae the USB circuitry you need. Afarre, any chance you might open up your ratoc card and see what make it tick? maybe there might be some helpful clues in it.
BTW, I only have a palm Lifedrive, and I will buy my x51v in about 3 weeks.
well bigbop that sucks. but we still shouldn't give up.
i assume you checked all the testpads on the sides when you had the mobo taken apart, correct? which would answer InitialDriveGT's question...
i'm starting to think the problem now is the USB drivers... like someone said they've been included since CE 3 (WM2002) but i firmly believe that either HTC or Dell took them out of the x50/51 to try and save some ROM size...
so now we need to extract them from another device (maybe a loox? i looked it up before but i forget) and try to re-intigrate them into WM5.0 (don't forget the checksum files! ... or whatever they are...)
well bigbop that sucks. but we still shouldn't give up.
i assume you checked all the testpads on the sides when you had the mobo taken apart, correct? which would answer InitialDriveGT's question...
i'm starting to think the problem now is the USB drivers... like someone said they've been included since CE 3 (WM2002) but i firmly believe that either HTC or Dell took them out of the x50/51 to try and save some ROM size...
so now we need to extract them from another device (maybe a loox? i looked it up before but i forget) and try to re-intigrate them into WM5.0 (don't forget the checksum files! ... or whatever they are...)
I'm not giving up - just goning to take a couple of days off.....:rolling:
I can't find my A02 ROM RIS file. If anyone has an X50v with the A02 ROM and can make a backup of their unit (without any new apps - just the base ROM) that would be great. I can load it and test out the USB host interface.
Also, I know that a number of Aximsite members have been able to pull apart the ROM update files - if someone could point me to the instructions, I'll pull apart the A02 update and get the drivers myself.
As for the testpoints - I will be triple-checking my findings ('cause i already double-checked them ) to make sure I've got the 2 correct testpoints. There are NO other testpoints on the PCB for the USB host signals - I've checked practically ALL of them at this time.
The one thing I still need to check are the JTAG pins. That would be great for de-bricking and changing things like the MAC address, which incidentally is stored in a Xicor 2804 EEPROM right beside the TI ethernet controller.
Ok, I am just saying words, but the test points on the side of the board, what if they are usb host, but aren't making a connection because some other part hasn't enabled them.
Ok, I am just saying words, but the test points on the side of the board, what if they are usb host, but aren't making a connection because some other part hasn't enabled them.
I know - and I realise that your just trying to help but please be aware that I've already lookat at ALL the open parts locations on the board as well as checked for continuity from the testpoints to just about every other component on the board - no luck.
It appears that HTC only connected the USB host lines to a couple of testpoints for manufacturing testing only. We can connect to those two testpoints though and bring the USB host out to the real world, which I what I've already done on my X50v. I just can't get the OS to see that anything is there (yet).
hey bigbop, if you can find me a link to a rom image that contains a USB Host driver for WM5.0, i can disassemble the rom and extract the drivers (as long as i can Identify them)...
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