Ok, so what is the next step? Find the pinouts? Get ahold of an acer (or something else that has a usb host) and investigate that?
I do beleive the BT is out. So we're going to have to find out if we can even get to the pins of the pxa270's usb hosts. I figure you'd have to remove the proc to get to those pins though, doesn't seem like they would put mounts on the board for it if it's not used... Maybe this just might be too hard to bother with... :(
What devices have usb hosts and the pxa270 that can be used without modding?
the thing though is that the pins are gojng to be visible on the other side of the board, as they have to be soldered d\somewhere..
I don't think that's how they did it with these. I think they're sort of "printed" or "pressed" onto the board. They don't solder anything at all. My work orders boards like that, where the proc or main chip is printed into the board.
In that case, they might not have put posts or whatever they use to press them into the board for the usb hosts. If that's the case, we're screwed. We'd have to remove the proc and add a way to get to those pins AND be able to put it back in place.
From the pictures I see, I don't see much solder on those chips... not only that but it looks like a dual-layer board. Which means we'll never see those pins unless we buy a broken x51v and find a way to seperate those boards. If they eppoxy'd them together (as we do at my work) then there's no way to get them apart without destroying most of it. I bet you'd pull the traces right off the board. Even after all that work we may find out that there are pins there, but no traces. To get to the pins you'd have to seperate the boards. If you seperate the boards you're going to mess something up and you broke your axim. We really... really... really... need a board schematic... If Afarre still has his open, I'd like as close and as many shots of the sides of the board (to see if they are two boards glued together or if it is just one board) and if it would be possible to remove the label under the battery to see the board under it. If it's like... superglued on there I don't want you to break anything, it's just... well it looks like most of the processor stuff is under that label...
Also Afarre, on the part of the label you whited-out, do you have hardware version A00 or A01?
Right now I'm seeing my only option is the ratoc card... at least I could use a HDD and a touchscreen at the same time.
I don't think that's how they did it with these. I think they're sort of "printed" or "pressed" onto the board. They don't solder anything at all. My work orders boards like that, where the proc or main chip is printed into the board.
In that case, they might not have put posts or whatever they use to press them into the board for the usb hosts. If that's the case, we're screwed. We'd have to remove the proc and add a way to get to those pins AND be able to put it back in place.
From the pictures I see, I don't see much solder on those chips... not only that but it looks like a dual-layer board. Which means we'll never see those pins unless we buy a broken x51v and find a way to seperate those boards. If they eppoxy'd them together (as we do at my work) then there's no way to get them apart without destroying most of it. I bet you'd pull the traces right off the board. Even after all that work we may find out that there are pins there, but no traces. To get to the pins you'd have to seperate the boards. If you seperate the boards you're going to mess something up and you broke your axim. We really... really... really... need a board schematic... If Afarre still has his open, I'd like as close and as many shots of the sides of the board (to see if they are two boards glued together or if it is just one board) and if it would be possible to remove the label under the battery to see the board under it. If it's like... superglued on there I don't want you to break anything, it's just... well it looks like most of the processor stuff is under that label...
Also Afarre, on the part of the label you whited-out, do you have hardware version A00 or A01?
Right now I'm seeing my only option is the ratoc card... at least I could use a HDD and a touchscreen at the same time.
....
there is a chip in one of the shots (kinda looks like a gddr2 or 3 chip) that says pxa270. i am assuming that is the proc.
You need to identify the rest.
Just do a Google seach with the IC labels. Better if you add the keyword: "datasheet".
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I don't think that's how they did it with these. I think they're sort of "printed" or "pressed" onto the board. They don't solder anything at all. My work orders boards like that, where the proc or main chip is printed into the board.
In that case, they might not have put posts or whatever they use to press them into the board for the usb hosts. If that's the case, we're screwed. We'd have to remove the proc and add a way to get to those pins AND be able to put it back in place.
From the pictures I see, I don't see much solder on those chips... not only that but it looks like a dual-layer board. Which means we'll never see those pins unless we buy a broken x51v and find a way to seperate those boards. If they eppoxy'd them together (as we do at my work) then there's no way to get them apart without destroying most of it. I bet you'd pull the traces right off the board. Even after all that work we may find out that there are pins there, but no traces. To get to the pins you'd have to seperate the boards. If you seperate the boards you're going to mess something up and you broke your axim. We really... really... really... need a board schematic... If Afarre still has his open, I'd like as close and as many shots of the sides of the board (to see if they are two boards glued together or if it is just one board) and if it would be possible to remove the label under the battery to see the board under it. If it's like... superglued on there I don't want you to break anything, it's just... well it looks like most of the processor stuff is under that label...
Also Afarre, on the part of the label you whited-out, do you have hardware version A00 or A01?
Right now I'm seeing my only option is the ratoc card... at least I could use a HDD and a touchscreen at the same time.
The important thing is once soldered it is imposible to access IC pins.
The only ways to see if USB host pins are wired at motherboard and to find out were they go are:
Getting information from Dell
Unsoldering CPU. Does anyone have the machine? :exc: :exc:
Having a broken motherboard to safely experience with it :approve:
And remember the final result could be: pins are not wired at motherboard, they are dead below the chip. In this case there is nothing to do.
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Exactly what I said. If the mainboard doesn't have leads for the usb host on the chip, we can't do it. I beleive our sister factory has one, but I don't know if they can take them apart (we usually scrap them if they don't work and make a new one), and I'm not going to use my axim to find out. We'd have to have a broken one first.
I guess that's what it comes down to. Even if the rumors about dell dropping pdas is true, I doubt they'll be as generous as tapwave was and release all thier information on the devices. So with Dell not telling us crap we're going to have to buy a broken one, strip it, and find out.
Afarre? Are you able to get a picture of what's under that label? I beleive that should be the other side where the proc is... maybe we can get something from that. We could always test each trace individually....
Boards like this are typically made in a device kind of like a pizza oven. The solder pads are screen printed with solder paste, the chips are placed by machine and the whole unit goes through the oven. You can remove a BGA chip with a heat gun. I would only do it on a board that you don't want anymore. But for the purpose of getting the info you need that is the best option.
The motherboard is undoubtedly multilayer so there is no guarantee that there will be visible traces from the contact you are interested in. It might be possible to find a connection to the contact, but it will be difficult. If you have a circuit tracer it would help. Good Luck
You need to identify the rest.
Just do a Google seach with the IC labels. Better if you add the keyword: "datasheet".
lol.. i suppose the id duty falls to me, il do it do it sometime today, i might not be able to get all the ICs but il do as many as i can find time to do....
EDIT: looks like that guy i nthe link already did most of them...
...Afarre? Are you able to get a picture of what's under that label? I beleive that should be the other side where the proc is... maybe we can get something from that. We could always test each trace individually....
In a multilayered board what you see in one side does not have any relation with the other side. It is like they were two different boards, in fact it is what they are.
It is also impossible to trace the lines "by sight". Also it is impossible to see anything through it: multilayered boards tipically have a layer dedicated for grounds and power lines. Those layers use to be 90% cupper and make the whole board opaque.
If we get a broken board we should spend a lot of time measuring continuites to see if desired pins goes somewhere.
hmm sad i dont still work at my old place :)
was working with xray and could easely have seen what was in side the board, still got some friends working there so i might be able to have a look on whats inside :)
not that we will know what side we se but we should se what lines go where and i gues from that we could figureout what is inside of the board and whats outside, not sure if it is of much help tough
Ok but a question what is the reason to get USB on to the X51V?
1. Is it for the external touch screen controls? In this case would it not be simpler to try and find a touch screen with the Bluetooth for the controls (I have no clue if this exists)?
OR
2. Is it for the External Hard drive? What about trying to use Network drives I believe there are companies that have Hard drives that connect via wireless....Mind you that you are limited to the speed of the 802.11b which is 11mb. Not enough for DVD but just fine for Divx.
Is it possible to make some kind of Bluetooth to USB device I think that would be cool, maybe slower but if its for things that don't need high bandwidth that may just work. As well then there would be no need in opening up the X51v
I figured it was multilayer, I haven't seen anything in a long time that wasn't (unless it was cheap or chinese :D)
The reasons for usb are extensive. No there are no bluetooth touchscreens, I looked. I want it because I could use:
keyboard
mouse
touchscreen
external card reader
160gb portable hdd :D
and afarre's trying to get a webcam to work on it
Can BT do all of those..... at once? I don't know of any BT SD card readers or 160gb hdds. And you're talking running a cf card or onboard usb versus using wireless? Wireless would kill the batteries alot faster. Those enclosures usually need a network setup, dhcp server and what not. If I wanted to use that drive outside of my house I'd have to find a hotspot, and guess at it's IP address. Wireless hdds are out.
Anyways, what I'm going to do (the whole reason I'm so involved in this) is I'm going to vaccum mold a tablet case with a 7" touchscreen LCD. I'm going to set it up so that on the top you could insert the axim (like a thick card) and on the side you would have 2 usb ports and another slot for a removable laptop hdd. That way I would have a laptop (because I could jsut add a usb k&m), a tablet (large screen I could write on, watch movies, play some games), and I'll make a car mount for it and put a BT GPS on the inside.
I could go super-portable (just the axim)
around the house portable (tablet mode)
and school/work portable (laptop mode)
and with the external antenna mod (gps wardriving and navigation)
I'll name it.... Aximformer... or something equally as stupid.
TransAxim... anyways
Ok, so we need to figure out the pins and the traces... knowing one would make the other easier to figure out...
On a side note, are there any empty chip pads on the board? Where they would solder the legs, but there's not chip there? And did we ever figure out what those pads were along the side?
EDIT: Has anyone tried to petition Dell for thier Axim's info? I mean... they stopped production right? What need do they have for a few board diagrams? Just a thought... the Axim would become a hacker's dream if they released that info.
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