Specific x50v/x51v LCD Info Needed

[warmflatsprite]

Hello,

I'm interested in using a replacement Sharp LS037V7DD05 LCD in a project that I am working on. Due to the apparent secrecy of specific technical information on this LCD, I'm wondering if anybody has any good specific information that might be useful to me.

I'm looking for the following, but any info helps -

Pin/Pad Descriptions
Board Connector Part Numbers
Logic and Voltage Levels
LED Backlight, or CCFL?
If CCFL, Inverter Spec
Power Usage
High-Res Photos of cables/connectors

If anyone has any useful information on this device, please post here, or send me a PM. If posting this information publicly is a Bad Thing, then please clue me in as to why. I don't intend to publish any official documents, but I would like to publish the above information in some form -- preferably citing the source to be reverse engineering, not leaked documents.

<shameless plug>
If you're curious about my project, please visit http://www.widgetry.org
</shameless plug>

Thanks,
Ben

[GiantIguana]

Incidentally, I'm looking for a datasheet for this LCD too. Sharp has announced a new 3.7" VGA LCD. Have you seen my recent post:
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=141169

[warmflatsprite]

Incidentally, I'm looking for a datasheet for this LCD too. Sharp has announced a new 3.7" VGA LCD. Have you seen my recent post:
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=141169

Yes, I have. I've been curious about these other screens as well. Judging by the LED comments in your post, the current screen has a CCFL backlight?

Thanks,
Ben

[GiantIguana]

Yes, I have. I've been curious about these other screens as well. Judging by the LED comments in your post, the current screen has a CCFL backlight?

Thanks,
Ben

I was about to say that I'm now not so sure what kind of backlights it uses. That was my assumption.

Please let me know if you can find more info about this lcd. Thanks.

[warmflatsprite]

I was about to say that I'm now not so sure what kind of backlights it uses. That was my assumption.

Please let me know if you can find more info about this lcd. Thanks.

I'll send you a PM if I hear anything from outside sources.

For now I've been using the datasheet from the LS037V7DW01, which says it has LED back lighting. I think that everything is the same between it and the LS037V7DD05 in terms of interfacing, with the exception of cable location. My reasoning behind this hunch is that they're in the same product family. If the assumption is correct, then the LS037V7DD05 uses LEDs as well, as an inverter interface would be necessary for the CCFL.

[bigbop]

Guys, none of the newer PDA screens use CCFL anymore - they are too power hungry. Everything uses white LED backlights now.

Also, most small colour LCD panels are custom designed for specific OEMs. Some OEMs will source the same proprietary design from two companies to mitigate parts shortages.

Any opensource design should not use something from an existing proprietary device design. You need to go to the LCD manufacturer's web pages and grab something that is in their standard product offering. In today's competitive marketplace, you've got very little chance of getting any proprietary info on anything unless you reverse-engineer it, which I have had to do in the past.

Another source you can look at are the surplus places that handle LCD panels. They tend to get large job lots and since they grab such a large quantity, they sometimes get the tech specs on the parts. Another source would be to approach the large electronic manufacturers (Motorola is in Plantation, Fla) although again, they have proprietary designs.

Good luck.

[warmflatsprite]

Any opensource design should not use something from an existing proprietary device design.

I promise you this decision hasn't come from lack of time spent searching. I have spent literally hundreds of hours of my personal time searching for a suitable screen for this device. There are non-proprietary screens available that fit the bill in terms of technical specifications, but they either are only available in large quantities, or available in small quantities at prices that are way beyond my price range.

The issue here isn't proprietary hardware, it's availability and price. If you can show me a non-proprietary 3.7" (or similarly sized) VGA screen that can be shipped to my door in single quantities for ~$200, then I'll be extremely grateful and make sure to credit you as a project contributor. Until a substitute can be found however, I'm stuck with spending some extra time doing a bit of reverse engineering.

As for the issue with CCFL not being used in modern devices, I agree that it is being phased out, but that doesn't mean that it is completely eliminated. The concern isn't so much power as it is cost of production, though. There are some pretty low-power CCFLs out there, but they [edit: devices that make use of them] are expensive to produce due to the requirement of low-loss inversion. An example of this type of screen would be the Toshiba LTM04C380, which consumes a total of 0.4 watts.

As for the datasheet issue, the only surplus place that I found that was willing to talk to me and had the datasheet wanted to charge me $250 for it... :crooked:

I'm sorry if I sound upset -- it's nothing to do with you or your comment - the frustration is entirely due to the lack of solutions to this problem (sourcing an LCD) which on the surface seems as though it should be fairly straightforward. :bang:

Thanks for the comment, and please keep me in mind if you come across anything useful.

-Ben

[bigbop]

I promise you this decision hasn't come from lack of time spent searching. I have spent literally hundreds of hours of my personal time searching for a suitable screen for this device. There are non-proprietary screens available that fit the bill in terms of technical specifications, but they either are only available in large quantities, or available in small quantities at prices that are way beyond my price range.

The issue here isn't proprietary hardware, it's availability and price. If you can show me a non-proprietary 3.7" (or similarly sized) VGA screen that can be shipped to my door in single quantities for ~$200, then I'll be extremely grateful and make sure to credit you as a project contributor. Until a substitute can be found however, I'm stuck with spending some extra time doing a bit of reverse engineering.

As for the issue with CCFL not being used in modern devices, I agree that it is being phased out, but that doesn't mean that it is completely eliminated. The concern isn't so much power as it is cost of production, though. There are some pretty low-power CCFLs out there, but they [edit: devices that make use of them] are expensive to produce due to the requirement of low-loss inversion. An example of this type of screen would be the Toshiba LTM04C380, which consumes a total of 0.4 watts.

As for the datasheet issue, the only surplus place that I found that was willing to talk to me and had the datasheet wanted to charge me $250 for it... :crooked:

I'm sorry if I sound upset -- it's nothing to do with you or your comment - the frustration is entirely due to the lack of solutions to this problem (sourcing an LCD) which on the surface seems as though it should be fairly straightforward. :bang:

Thanks for the comment, and please keep me in mind if you come across anything useful.

-Ben

What's the part number you're looking for that they wanted $250 for?

By the way, have you seen this?.... http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35590

[warmflatsprite]

What's the part number you're looking for that they wanted $250 for?

By the way, have you seen this?.... http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35590

It wasn't a part at all - they were trying to charge me $250 to e-mail me a PDF copy of the datasheet for the LCD that is in the Axim -- the Sharp LS037V7DD05. I believe it's HID part number is 60H00029-00.

As for the phone... Awesome! I'll have to look into it a bit more later to see the details of exactly what it is. I also saw that Intel has released a reference platform for their mobile graphics accelerator (the chip number escapes me now and I don't have time to look it up). It was developed by Intersync (I think) and the entire schematic is available as a PDF free of charge. I've got the PDF at home if you're interested.

Thanks for the link!
Ben

[Edit: After reading through that article a bit more, it looks like their business model is to license the hardware to vendors as a development platform, but GPL as much of the software as they can. Our plan is to CC the hardware design and (probably) GPL the software. More later]

[bigbop]

It wasn't a part at all - they were trying to charge me $250 to e-mail me a PDF copy of the datasheet for the LCD that is in the Axim -- the Sharp LS037V7DD05. I believe it's HID part number is 60H00029-00.

As for the phone... Awesome! I'll have to look into it a bit more later to see the details of exactly what it is. I also saw that Intel has released a reference platform for their mobile graphics accelerator (the chip number escapes me now and I don't have time to look it up). It was developed by Intersync (I think) and the entire schematic is available as a PDF free of charge. I've got the PDF at home if you're interested.

Thanks for the link!
Ben

[Edit: After reading through that article a bit more, it looks like their business model is to license the hardware to vendors as a development platform, but GPL as much of the software as they can. Our plan is to CC the hardware design and (probably) GPL the software. More later]

Refer to the presentation slides at the bottom of the page: http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html
Please note that in order to get the GSM/CDMA chipset, you may have to sign a contract with the technology vendor. They don't normally sell ones & twos of their chipsets. Contact the company that puts out the openmoko and see if you can swing a student discount deal with them. Get in touch with a few other colleges and university student groups (Student IEEE branches?) and show the company you've got some momentum. I did that 31 years ago with my student IEEE branch when we needed some corporate support.

[warmflatsprite]

Refer to the presentation slides at the bottom of the page: http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html
Please note that in order to get the GSM/CDMA chipset, you may have to sign a contract with the technology vendor. They don't normally sell ones & twos of their chipsets. Contact the company that puts out the openmoko and see if you can swing a student discount deal with them. Get in touch with a few other colleges and university student groups (Student IEEE branches?) and show the company you've got some momentum. I did that 31 years ago with my student IEEE branch when we needed some corporate support.

That's excellent advice from a fund raising perspective, but OpenMoko isn't really in line with our project goals. We're designing the hardware so that we can just throw it out there in the wild. Restricting ourself by signing an NDA or similar agreement wouldn't be in the interest of the project.

While we're still in the design phase for the hardware, we're reaching the late part of the first spiral, and our software development is (sort of) happening in parallel. All of the major hardware components (modules) have been spec'd out already, and I've got a lot of the circuitry schemed out. The LCD is really my only headache still, but that's just because I don't need the added challenge of reverse engineering something that the rest of the project is directly dependent on. It'll be worth the trouble though; I've got a budget and cost-per-unit goal to consider.

The GSM module we're using doesn't require a contract, and while it is proprietary, its interface is mostly standardized and well documented where it is not. We're not doing anything with CDMA right now. If I keep this up after graduation, I'll probably try and integrate a CDMA module at some point, but that's a bit more tricky because the service providers for CDMA really enforce their device certification, where GSM is a bit more relaxed. Also, finding reliable distributors for low-priced single quantities is always 'fun.'

Actually, none of the modules we're using require a contract or special certification. They're all certified by the FCC already. Our supporting circuitry would need to be FCC certified, but only if we were planning on selling it; if we're experimental, we're safe from that concern. Also - everything can be purchased online in single quantities.

The end for which we're attempting to provide a means is the ability for any shmo with a bit of time and money (hopefully $500 or less) to be able to build, customize, and program his/her own smartphone. The idea is that electronics hobbyist should be able to read our background docs and follow our instructions to build their device using the modules/components we've spec'd and the distributors we recommend. I also plan on posting schematics, board layouts, and Gerber files so that people can just send the zip file containing their desired configuration off to their favorite board house, and just populate the board when it comes back.

Another big thing about our project is that there's no business model behind it, it's just something to do for fun and extra engineering experience. It's not that we lack one due to laziness or lack of foresight -- it's that we don't want one :). That's why I had hesitation about the GPL earlier. It's probably too restrictive for what we're doing.

We're not making an attempt at a sneaky way to try and take over the cell phone industry, and we definitely aren't trying to delude ourselves or anyone else with such ideas. We're really just into tinkering, and making a few fellow geeks happy. It all comes down to work vs. passion, and for me (and I hope the rest of the team), this is a passion. Haha, if it wasn't, I wouldn't have spent the 6 months prior to the start of the project researching and trying to source components.

Wow - this response got really long, really fast :)... If you're interested in getting involved, even if only as someone to bounce ideas off of, as you sound like you've been 'in the biz' for a while; or if you have an interest to hear more and/or get project updates -- feel free to send me a PM w/ your preferred method of contact, and I'll be more than happy to keep in touch and clue you in whenever something major happens on the project.

Thanks a ton for pointing OpenMoko out, too - hopefully it's a useful example for ironing out design issues and bugs. If nothing else it's a useful example just because it's so damned pretty!

Take it easy,
Ben