Battery Questions

[ConnectCruise]

I haven't had my x51v very long, so I have a question regarding the battery... I downloaded BattiSettings. And for the first time I had information that I previously did not see. It showed the Backup Battery: voltage 11.002 BUT it appeared empty (light blue rather than darker) and showed 0% at the end. Does this mean that backup battery isn't working or am I misreading it. Another question. It says that the main battery is 26.2 C but at other times it is higher, over 30C. What causes a battery to heat up?

I didn't think that the X51v HAD a backup battery. If it has it is almost certainly a capacitor, like the X50v.

There is no way its voltage could be 11.002 volts. The main battery voltage is 3.7 volts and the AC adapter charger voltage is 5.4 volts.

All lithium-ion batteries get a little warm when in use or when charging but 26.2 C (79 F) is far too high. Take the back off an feel the battery. If it is more that just a little warm there is something seriously wrong with it and it might explode

I don't know the BattiSettings program but yours seems to be giving you pretty duff information

[srvctec]

I haven't had my x51v very long, so I have a question regarding the battery... I downloaded BattiSettings. And for the first time I had information that I previously did not see. It showed the Backup Battery: voltage 11.002 BUT it appeared empty (light blue rather than darker) and showed 0% at the end. Does this mean that backup battery isn't working or am I misreading it. Another question. It says that the main battery is 26.2 C but at other times it is higher, over 30C. What causes a battery to heat up?

The x51v doesn't actually have a backup battery and in fact does have a capacitor. Ignore the backup battery status- it has nothing to do with your device. I've used Batti since I got my PDA and have never paid any attention to that part of the info displayed.

I didn't think that the X51v HAD a backup battery. If it has it is almost certainly a capacitor, like the X50v.

There is no way its voltage could be 11.002 volts. The main battery voltage is 3.7 volts and the AC adapter charger voltage is 5.4 volts.

All lithium-ion batteries get a little warm when in use or when charging but 26.2 C (79 F) is far too high. Take the back off an feel the battery. If it is more that just a little warm there is something seriously wrong with it and it might explode

I don't know the BattiSettings program but yours seems to be giving you pretty duff information

I totally disagree with your statement about the battery having serious problems at 79 F or that reading being far too high! It's not even any where near warm at that temperature. For a human to even feel if something is warm to the touch in the first place requires that surface to be at or near 98.6 F. None of my batteries have ever been below 79 F in the 2 years I've owned my x51v unless I turn it on when it's been in a cooler area. I use it numerous times a day every single day and normal operating temperature varies depending on what I'm doing with it. If it's plugged in and charging, the temp will be around 98-105 F. Sometimes when using wifi without being plugged in to external power, the temp will be around 100-105 F simply because much more of a load is being put on the battery.

Batti gives perfectly accurate information and has the entire time I've used it.

[johnhu_2005]

I confirm that. Batti shows 99 degrees Fahrenheit in the cradle and charging.

[srvctec]

I might also add that there is no question whatsoever whether Batti (or any other program that displays the battery temperature) is accurate or not since this information is taken from the device itself. That information is just being displayed by Batti- it's not like Batti is trying to figure out what the actual temperature is since that info is built in.

@ ConnectCruise, have you tried out TodayWarrior? I also use it in conjunction with Batti. It is a fantastic little app (free) that can display all kinds of info (including battery temp and charge) right on the Today screen taking up a very small amount of real estate. I've been using it for almost 2 years as well. See my "View MyPDA" for a screen shot. The Today Warrior bar is at the top just under the task bar.

Hope all this info helps!

Your statement that "For a human to even feel if something is warm to the touch in the first place requires that surface to be at or near 98.6 F." is self evidentially absurd. Do you honestly think that something cooler that 98.6 F feels COLD?

If the air temperature is 90 F it is unpleasantly and uncomfortably HOT. If it is 98.6 it is unbearably and dangerously HOT. Ask your troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Fortunately we very seldom get temperatures even approaching these here in the UK but, when we did three summers ago, quite a few elderly people died of heat stroke and exhaustion.

How do you measure the battery temperatures of 100 - 105 that you quote? Are these the figures that Batti gives you. If so then they are quite obviously wrong as are those quoted by ConnectCruise.

I very much doubt if ConnectCruise gets actual battery temperatures of anything like the 79 F that Batti tells him.

I repeat my statement that a temperature of 79 F is dangerously high for a Lithium-Ion battery which is likely to explode at that temperature. You may recall that recently Sony recalled many of their Laptops because they had a bad batch of batteries several of which did explode.

Also how do you explain the back up battery voltage of 11.002 which ConnectCruise quotes. This is obviously utterly impossible as it is more that twice the voltage of the charger!

Don't believe everything (or anything) that Batti tells you.

[johnhu_2005]

Ok, even if Batti is wrong, temperature between 90 - 110 degree Fahrenheit, does not involve explosions of any kind. I had my Axim on for 4 hours to test Batti's temperature gauge.

All "standard" is is the usage among many individuals. Of course, srvctec and I both receive the temperatures around that range. So, even with a wrong scale, it would still prove accurate as no danger to anyone.

[srvctec]

@davrol

Did you pay attention to what you quoted from me? The key is surface temperature, "to the touch" is what I said and you quoted. I totally agree that if it's 90 F outside, then it's hot (it gets well over 100 F here during the summer), but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that surface temperature needs to be close to normal human body temperature to feel warm to the touch. Look it up if you don't believe me! I'm not really sure why you even mentioned air temperature- that's not what we're talking about here- it's the temperature of a battery that's in discussion. Air temperature feels different because of the evaporation of perspiration on the skin's surface and how well that evaporation can occur depending on what the ambient temperature and humidity is. You might want to do some research on this before more misinformation gets spread all over the internet.

I have numerous programs on my device (Batti, SKTools, TodayWarrior to name a few) that ALL give the temperature of my battery and they all say the EXACT same thing because that info comes from the x51v itself derived from the thermistor (temperature sensor) embedded in the Lithium ion battery pack. This information is NOT wrong. What makes you think it is?

I repeat my statement that a battery temperature of 79 F is NOT dangerous in any manner whatsoever. If that is dangerous, then I've been living on the edge of total destruction of my device every time I turn it on thousands of times in the last 2+ years. Where in the world did you get the information that a lithium ion battery at 79 F is dangerous?! 79 Celcius would be quite dangerous, but not Fahrenheit- not even close.

Batti is written for devices that also have a back up battery. That information is TOTALLY irrelevant here as the x51v does not have a back up battery- didn't I already mention this or did you not fully read my post?

I will continue to believe anything and everything (except the back up battery info) that Batti and all the other programs I have telling me the exact same information about my batteries.

[JakeRich]

To add some science here about "warm to the touch." According to ASTM International, a standards body, ASTM Test standard C1055, which has to do with heated surface temperature, considers the impact on skin of 5 second contact exposure intervals. According to the standard, there is no threat of burn until you get to 40 degrees C (104 Degrees F). At that temperature there is a risk of a 1st degree burn with extended contact of longer than 5 seconds. So, obviously 104 degrees F would feel hot. Below that, it's skin temperature, not internal body temperature, that matters. Normal skin temperature is about 32 degrees C (90 F), so a 90F battery should feel neutral. Above that, it would feel warm until about 104, at which it would feel hot and with long touch could generate a mild burn, probably just a red patch on the skin with no blistering. Penn State Med Center warns that 120 degree F (47C) hot water can cause scalding. That's the science.

For the battery, I found one research paper that indicated the Li-ion battery is engineered to maintain an internal temperature of 40C (104F) as the max for charging and 60C (140F) max temp during max discharge rate. Not only can a heavily discharging battery get hot, it can get very hot. So, 79-80 F is not outside the design of the battery, and probably won't feel warm to the touch at that temp. At max charge temp of 40C, it will feel hot and may result in a 1st degree burn if long touch is sustained.

My sincere apologies srvctec. I take back almost all of what I said.

I have installed Today Warrior at your suggestion. It also shows a battery temperature of 93 F.

I have taken the back off and felt the battery which feels only very barely warm which tallies with what JakeRich says.

So clearly all that I said about battery temperature was completely wrong and, once again, I apologize.

I am a bit puzzled by several of the icons displayed by Today Warrior. It does not seem to have a Help file. The icon at the bottom left does nothing when I tap it but text to the right of it says "Off", The next icon doesn't seem to do anything either but to the right of it says "TW v0.60". I have no idea what this means. I imagine that it means Today Warrior version 0.60. Is this correct?

The Battery icon works fine however. At present it is showing 93 F and 100% charged. To the right of this it shows 013H. I don't know what tis mand. Then it shos 4176 mv which is correct for the battery voltage.

Finally I too have SK Tools which is an absolutely excellent utility but, although it has a great many different functions I can't find one which gives the battery temperature or voltage. Can you tell me what option does this?

Having written such rubbish, would you like me to delete my two posts?

[johnhu_2005]

Personally, this is how we learn. :)

Problem solved, and every one have a Merry Christmas (or Hanukkah or whatever you celebrate).

~John

[srvctec]

No worries davrol! As johnhu_2005 said, it's how we learn- no need to delete your posts (it's not my thread in the first place!).

The TodayWarrior website is kind of difficult to find what one needs. Here is the most information about the program and the closest thing to a help file. TodayWarrior is a fantastic little program that takes up such a small space on the Today screen, yet provides numerous shortcuts to frequently used features and info.

In SKTools, go to Category/Information/System Information/Power and there you should see all the same info you see in TodayWarrior. They both get the info from the same place, just display it in a different manner.

Happy Holidays everyone!

edit: Forgot to mention- Thank you JakeRich for the science info. I was close, but had forgotten that the detail was skin temperature and not actual body temperature that determines what we deem as warm or cool to the touch (hey, I "learned" this stuff 24+ years ago!). I actually did some testing on this myself this last weekend using my infrared non contact thermometer. The surface temperature of my hands is about 87-90 degrees F, so this is right in line with what you posted.