USB Host

[deftech]

But you've also got to take into account that very few people are going to use this. The primary Dell customer is the business user. And a large majority of business users want portability, not lugging around a bunch of USB accessories.

I don't see Dell ever implementing USB host support into their PPCs, as it would deliver very little benefit to the majority of users compared to the cost to develop/implement it.

And really, it sounds like a "cool" feature, but how often are you truly going to want to hook up USB devices? (keep in mind answering this, that you need a WinCE driver for the device). I just don't see the point in this, when just about any of this can be accomplished with Bluetooth and/or WiFi (or other technologies) and allow the user to remain mobile.

[Tala]

Count me in the 99% too :) I have no use for USB host. Also CE has no USB printer drivers. You basically may want to use it for mass storage devices and keyboards.

After all i would like to connect to other devices wireless (ie. using Bluetooth)

Tala

[FallN]

Why... why? :headshake

I think the main reason it isn't taking off is because manufacturers aren't pushing it or even listing it prominently even if the PPC/PDA already features it.

But with Dell... they basically dumb down their products to the lowest common denominator in order to sell more to the masses, many of which don't know a PPC from their Palm- pun intended.

Why? Why?? :headshake

[deftech]

But with Dell... they basically dumb down their products to the lowest common denominator

Yes, and they do so to lower their production costs. Even a few cents per unit adds up to a lot of money on a mass-production line. Add R&D, driver development, implementation, and whatever other costs arise with adding one "tiny" feature, and you've just raised cost-per-unit tremendously for Dell. A low-cost provider like Dell isn't going to add a feature unless it benefits the majority, or at least a large part, of the consumers buying the device.

[FallN]

What I've been trying to say is OFFER A HIGHER END MODEL W/UBS HOST! Not make EVERY AXIM w/USB Hosting!

Sheesh! It's the same reason there are THREE DIFFERENT versions of the X3, the X30 and now the X50! Not everyone wants WiF and Bluetooth so those ppl get to choose the low model. Not everyone wants a VGA screen but they need WiFi/BT so they go for the Mid model, etc.

Why not offer a model with a USB Host and charge more while still offering the lower end models?? That's exactly in line with Dell's policy anyway. They make several different versions of the same modle offering more features the higher you go up their tier.

[tsaimelv]

What I've been trying to say is OFFER A HIGHER END MODEL W/UBS HOST! Not make EVERY AXIM w/USB Hosting!

This is retarded. This isn't a BMW or Honda automobile where there are infinite combinations of "available options." It has just been soundly argued above why Dell, HP, Sony, Palm (see a trend??? this is probably 95% of the PDA market) do not add USB host support, selling a quirky "high-end model with USB host" would cost so much extra (marketing, production line retooling, software modifications, tech support) that the 100 people on earth who who would buy this "high end model" could not possibly recoup their costs. Simply marketing and advertising this "high end model" would probably not make sense for their bottom line. They made a business decision and decided that they will have 3 major models, differentiated by processor, screen, and wireless. USB host isn't even in the same league as these factors. This has nothing to do with the fact that USB host has not been stressed in product literature or reviews -- MOST PEOPLE DON'T NEED NOR WANT USB HOST.

Sheesh, it's simple economics, and whining about it isn't gonna change that.

Think of it another way... Their primary customers, business users, can all afford the Dell-branded X30/X50 keyboards or bluetooth wireless keyboards, which virtually eliminates the usefulness of USB host for keyboards. The remaining primary use of USB host would be mass storage devices, and again, business users can afford huge CF cards if they need them. What else is left? The remaining use would probably be large USB hard drives or USB flash key-fob devices. If I were dell, I couldn't care less, at least not now.

p.s... I'd love USB host on the x50v, I'd *use* USB host on an x50v, but this doesn't blind me from the facts.

[Tala]

But with Dell... they basically dumb down their products to the lowest common denominator in order to sell more to the masses, many of which don't know a PPC from their Palm- pun intended.

Thats the most stupid thing i heared in a while. The 2700g is the most expensive graphics solution available for PDAs at the moment. While expensive it gives Dell the advantage to offer video acceleration, 3d/2d accelration as well as VGA out. That is very revolutionary for a PDA today. Neither is a 624MHz CPU the lowest common denominator.
With the same argument you could argue, that every manufacturer, who does not use the 2700g offer a dumb down product.
Its all about differentation from other manufacturers. From a bussines point of view it makes no sense if everyone offers exactly the same model.

Tala

[stevekc]

I'd use USB Host to load all my Video collection onto a iriver IHP-140 40gb HDD player, and play them via USB Mass storage on a X50V with Windows Media 10. USB host is already built-in to the PXA272 CPU, and WM2003SE already has the USB Host Mass Storage drivers built-in. What a pity.

[FREAK]

FWIW the following PDA have USB Host capability:

Casio: E125
Toshiba: E740, E750, E400, E800, E830
Asus: A730, A730W
Fujitsu: A70W, 410,420, 710,720,

Its a feature that has been around for several years on select PDAs, problem is that few reviewers ever point out this exists, or how to fully exploit it.

but are any of these near powerful like the ax x050v????

[deftech]

What I've been trying to say is OFFER A HIGHER END MODEL W/UBS HOST! Not make EVERY AXIM w/USB Hosting!

Okay, but that still doesn't knock out the R&D costs which are probably the largest factor in implementing a new feature. I still say that dell will never offer USB hosting, as this feature is only demanded by a small niche market. The majority of users either 1) would never use it 2) would use it to "play around" with the feature and not get any practical purpose out of it. Yes, there are a small minority of users who would use the feature and lug around tons of USB stuff with them.... but for the average PPC customer, the demand is for MOBILITY. And mobility is not a strong-point for USB.

The only way Dell would ever put this as a feature on their PDAs is if they acquired a smaller company who already has done the R&D on this. Just ain't happening. :)

But if they offered it, would there sprout a host of new products to better take advantage of it?
Perhaps we'd get a stylis/mouse cross-over substitute?
Maybe drivers to use any usb keyboard on our Axim?
Access to CD/RWs to backup the whole handheld to CDs?
Output to a converter to a monitor, or perhaps directly to a projector? Printer output?

[JakeRich]

Maybe the better way to go is to get printer/HDD/etc manufacturers to put Bluetooth in their devices so that any BT PDA can print/read/do whatever through BT. Why carry cables? Why be on a leash? The idea behind a PPC is to be portable, not tied to a bunch of devices. Consider this: BT keyboard, BT monitor, BT printer, BT hard drive, all connected to the PPC as the CPU. When you have to move, you pick up the PPC and go, all the devices disconnect and your PPC is back to being a PDA. That, IMHO, is the way to go.

[uno_wind]

All of us are not fortunate enough to own every bit of the latest technology. Most of the people will want the latest devices to be backward compatible with the existing technology..

In other words, will it be cost effective to buy bluetooth model of all peripherals because the the PDA you were eagerly waiting for has bluetooth compatibility?

I firmly beleive that Dell can provide the option of an USB host as an option;

If you argue that USB host facility is not used by many people, how many will benefit from the presentation pack ? Still they are offering it....

[gbajon]

I'm not going to argue the good points made previously about production cost and issues. However, since I use mine at work a lot, the USB host for the thumb drive would allow me to get the word or excel files I need from any computer or user. We are not large or tech-laden so the only other option is transfer files to my computer and then ActiveSync. Lots more convenient to use the thumb drive.

[tsaimelv]

All of us are not fortunate enough to own every bit of the latest technology. Most of the people will want the latest devices to be backward compatible with the existing technology..

In other words, will it be cost effective to buy bluetooth model of all peripherals because the the PDA you were eagerly waiting for has bluetooth compatibility?

I firmly beleive that Dell can provide the option of an USB host as an option;

If you argue that USB host facility is not used by many people, how many will benefit from the presentation pack ? Still they are offering it....

I think you have a misconception that many others have... You talk about the difficulties of having "bluetooth models of all the peripherals" as if there are 100 USB devices that can be used with a USB-host-enabled PPC. But let's see what this includes: keyboards, 56k modems, USB mass storage devices. What else is there??? Any other USB devices (e.g. printers, scanners, USB-ethernet adaptors) don't even have drivers for WM2003 anyway! As for keyboards, if you really want one, the stowaway bluetooth keyboard costs less than $100 online and its price is dropping, and IR keyboards are much cheaper. If you want lots of convenient mobile storage, the CF slot on the X50 supports 5GB microdrives which can be bought for ~$200. Want a 56k modem for mobile internet? There are CF cards that do this. It is misguided to call this small group of peripherals "every bit of the latest technology." It's also funny to hear this considering that this is a $500 PDA and most people will be spending an additional $150-300 on warranties, screen protectors, SD/CF cards, cases, PPC software, and extended batteries!!! Sorry, you are already "fortunate enough" to own the latest technology.

People I'll say it again... USB host is nice, but it's not that useful considering that its primary uses (keyboard, storage) are already taken care of through other means. And, if you really really must have USB host for some other weird reason, then there are CF-based USB host cards that give you USB 2.0 ports!!! Thus, you do have a recourse.

If you complain about so few people benefiting from a presentation pack, remember there is a world of difference between USB host and presentation packs. The features enabled by USB hosting, as I argued above, can almost completely be implemented through other means or peripherals, whereas the presentation pack cannot be easily implemented through a cheap 3rd party solution. Besides, unlike USB host, the presentation pack is a feature valued by many business users (Dell would not have included it otherwise). Presentation pack == option that many users will buy, USB host == option that a small minority will care about, and can buy a CF USB host card anyway.

However, since I use mine at work a lot, the USB host for the thumb drive would allow me to get the word or excel files I need from any computer or user. We are not large or tech-laden so the only other option is transfer files to my computer and then ActiveSync. Lots more convenient to use the thumb drive.

If you really want this to work, you have another option... Why not carry around a secure digital or CF card and one of those 9-in-1 USB media readers for when you want to put PC files onto the card for use on your PPC. You don't need PC drivers for media readers, so it could serve the same purpose and convenience as a thumb drive, the only disadvantage is a slightly bulkier solution.