USB Host

[FallN]

Their primary customers, business users, can all afford the Dell-branded X30/X50 keyboards or bluetooth wireless keyboards, which virtually eliminates the usefulness of USB host for keyboards. The remaining primary use of USB host would be mass storage devices, and again, business users can afford huge CF cards if they need them. What else is left? The remaining use would probably be large USB hard drives or USB flash key-fob devices. If I were dell, I couldn't care less, at least not now.

I think THAT statement is completely retarded. All businesses operate primairily in the same way: "It's all about the bottom line". So what you're implying is couter-intuitive and completely backwards. Even business users have to worry about their BOTTOM LINE. They don't all have bottomless resources for add-on keyboards, bluetooth keyboards, storage devices, montorous CF cards, etc. to outfit a workfource of sometimes THOUSANDS. That is just stupid.

And btw, just in case you haven't noticed: CF cards are STILL in the lower single digits on the retail side and JUST ONE still costs HUNDREDS, and in some cases for the largest ones, THOUSANDS of dollars. Now tell me how is THAT good for their bottom line when you have to multiply that by a few hundred/thousand workers?

Dell isn't the only one worring about costs here. By offering the OPTION of a USB Host, many businesses and power users can cut out all the EXTRA CLUTTER they would have otherwise had to spend on add-on keyboards, bluetooth, CF cards, etc., and what business WOULDN'T want the ABILITY to do that at will? Shaving money off their costs is EVERY BUSINESS'S primary goal= further lining their pockets.

As for the "R&D would break Dell's bank/bottom line" theory, that's just silly. As Steve wrote, there are ALREADY PPC/PDAs that support USB Hosting. Did it break Asus's bank? It's not like Dell has to completely make up this technology from scratch.

Casio: E125
Toshiba: E740, E750, E400, E800, E830
Asus: A730, A730W
Fujitsu: A70W, 410,420, 710,720

Sure, Dell would have to ADAPT this technology slightly and apply it to the Axim, but again, they aren't making this stuff up from scratch. And if all the above companies can offer it, and good deal before Dell, there is no REAL reason not to even consider offering it as an OPTION to those that want to utilize it. The X50 can MORE than handle this feature. Sh!t, the ability is fully supported by WM2K3SE, the X50's processor can more than accomadate it...

If you don't want USB Host, great, that's your business, but that doesn't negate the fact that a good deal of people do. I'm sure there are TONS of people that don't want or need Bluetooth or WiFi. I'm sure there are tons of ppl that don't need or want VGA Out. You don't see them coming here saying "But R&D will break the bank... no one wants BT/WiFi anyway... no one wants VGA Out..."

You only put down a feature because you don't find a need for it, but that does not dismiss the FACT that there are tons of people abound that DO have a need for it and will utilize it if given the option to add it to their PPC.

I do believe that Dell will be releasing a "revision" of the X50v sometime in the first quarter of 2005 (barring any major delays), possibly under another model number, but this "revision" will probably add 128MB ROM and WM 2005! Hopefully, they will revisit the USB Host issue and give it some serious consideration. :approve:

If not, I'll do my best to wait for the next incarnation of the Axim or choose another manufacturer. The ability to use some free standing USB devices is very alluring and the more I think about it the more apealing it becomes.

[progman10]

Just out of curiousity, how many people would trade the VGA out for USB host (I myself cannot ever see myself using VGA out).

[FallN]

However, since I use mine at work a lot, the USB host for the thumb drive would allow me to get the word or excel files I need from any computer or user. We are not large or tech-laden so the only other option is transfer files to my computer and then ActiveSync. Lots more convenient to use the thumb drive.

Thank you. This is just what I am talking about. Not all businesses and Power Users have bottomless pockets. I'm a Power User and a fledgling small business owner. I would pay an extra $100- 200 to cut out all the "add-ons" and have native USB Hosting. Think about it: one Bluetooth keyboard costs about $125 anyway. Now add the ability to hook up a simple printer, a drive, a mouse, etc. and the benefits, and SAVINGS multiply exponentially.

USB Hosting, IMHO, is more useful than VGA Out which still requires a special OEM "Kit" and carries a hefty price tag, I'm sure.

But Dell decided not to offer it as other makers have already... I'm taking a "wait ans see" approach right now in regards to the X50v before I plunk down my hard-earned Power user/Small Business Owner's money. And USB Hosting is just one more reason to wait a bit more and see if Dell or someone else will fully support it. :approve:

[tsaimelv]

I think THAT statement is completely retarded. All businesses operate primairily in the same way: "It's all about the bottom line". So what you're implying is couter-intuitive and completely backwards. Even business users have to worry about their BOTTOM LINE. They don't all have bottomless resources for add-on keyboards, bluetooth keyboards, storage devices, montorous CF cards, etc. to outfit a workfource of sometimes THOUSANDS. That is just stupid.

Arguing with this logic is not worth my time. You have the facts, even the aximsite admins disagree with you, but I guess you've made up your mind. It's obviously so important to you that you should be looking at the Loox 720 or a CF-based USB host card. Sheesh.

[FallN]

But posting about it is? Oh, I guess you've already made up your mind. :p

Not everyone wants CF card add-ons, adding to cost and bulk! And not everyone wants a Loox. Sheesh.

[uno_wind]

All the major brands of pocket pc have implemented USB host feature in some of their models, except Dell...

Perhaps dell has some understanding with the providers of the alternate technology to never implement this feature on their machines..

So folks get ready to spend few hundred more dollars for bluetooth peripherals.. CF - usb adapter etc...

Dell wants to save few dollars it might take to implement the feature which very few people will use..

but they might have spent much more on the 16 mb video ram which even less percentage of ppc users (gamers) will have good use of.. even they have to wait for the latest games to come out which implement this feature...

Rest of us will wait for updates of the software we commonly use to make use of the additional graphics power of X50V.

But even to talk about USb host on an Axim is "criminal", since the site administrators also think so!!!!!

[gbajon]

I think this thread, like many others here, has been taken in the wrong direction. The original post was NOT "why don't they have USB hosting", but "what is it and why would it be important." I don't care about production costs and issues for this thread, I simply answered why I think USB host would be useful. That is neither right nor wrong, simply an opinion.

[tsaimelv]

All the major brands of pocket pc have implemented USB host feature in some of their models, except Dell...

Uhhh what about HP, Sony, and Palm? I don't see any USB host on their devices. Together with dell this is the vast majority of PDAs sold on the USA. Toshiba, Sharp, Asus, etc. either don't sell in the USA or have a VERY tiny market share.

But even to talk about USb host on an Axim is "criminal", since the site administrators also think so!!!!!

No, it's "criminal" when this issue has been beaten to death by people like you, there has probably been a post every day whining about this issue, and I'm sorry, most people will agree that the arguments FOR usb host are not that strong, whether you want USB host or not (I'll say it again -- I'd like USB host, but I'm not crying about it).

[slocraiger]

why not a SD card with USB dongle... I would love to connect my iriver 20g drive to my x30!!

[tsaimelv]

I think this thread, like many others here, has been taken in the wrong direction. The original post was NOT "why don't they have USB hosting", but "what is it and why would it be important." I don't care about production costs and issues for this thread, I simply answered why I think USB host would be useful. That is neither right nor wrong, simply an opinion.

Don't you find it ironic that the original thread starter, FallN, didn't even know what USB hosting was, yet now is arguing vehemently as to why it should be included in all dell PPCs? I'll say it again -- he called himself a "power user" above but didn't even know that he "needed" USB host. And people wonder why Dell, HP, Sony, and Palm do not include it...

The discussion of "why USB hosting is useful" and "why they don't have USB hosting" are intimately related. They are not separate ideas.

[deftech]

All of us are not fortunate enough to own every bit of the latest technology. Most of the people will want the latest devices to be backward compatible with the existing technology..

In other words, will it be cost effective to buy bluetooth model of all peripherals because the the PDA you were eagerly waiting for has bluetooth compatibility?

For a business (Dell's primary customer), yes. They don't want to lug around a ton of cables with them. For the average consumer, no.... but for an AVERAGE (not every) consumer USB hosting would be more of a "novelty" anyhow.

I firmly beleive that Dell can provide the option of an USB host as an option;

If you argue that USB host facility is not used by many people, how many will benefit from the presentation pack ? Still they are offering it....

Again, their primary customers are business users. Just about every company I've dealt with recently has brought their own portable projector/laptop to a presentation. There have been a few who used a PocketPC with a VGA-CF card instead of the laptop. Many more have used Dell PDAs, and would likely follow suit just for portability sake if a direct-cable was offered like this one. This will likely be a big seller on Dell's business side. You've got to remember that the household consumers are the "little guy" to companies like Dell who sell bulk orders of PDAs/laptops/etc to large corporations.

[DanielTS]

Key PPC industrial, Intel, believes in USB Host !

The USB Host function is integrated in the Intel XScale PXA27x chip :
http://www.intel.com/design/pca/images/bd_pxa27x.gif

[haihengh]

I don't see a reason for USB hosting. USB hosting is just something that most people don't care about. if you think it's a must have, get a Toshiba or somthing else. it's all about trade off. Dell made their decission, you can make your own decission too.

[deftech]

All the major brands of pocket pc have implemented USB host feature in some of their models, except Dell...

Sorry to keep disagreeing with you, but I have to on this as well...

HP (and Compaq before them) is the leading PocketPC manufacturer with their iPAQ line. Everyone else like Asus, Toshiba, and even Dell to some degree are just the little guys compared to the sales that HP has on its iPAQs.

And guess what, HP doesn't include USB hosting.

The smaller companies (or at least the ones with smaller PocketPC sales) like Toshiba and Asus include this feature because they are going for a niche market. They know that HP (and increasingly Dell) have the "business market" cornered in terms of PocketPC sales. Therefore, Asus and others are going to include features that will differentiate them from everyone else to try and gain the support of so-called "power users" in the consumer market.

This is all basic marketing strategy. You're not going to see a ton of "lesser used" functions added by companies like Dell and HP whose primary focus is business users and the average consumer. That's why companies like Asus and Toshiba add "special features" like these to differentiate themselves from the larger manufacturers and target a niche market of power users. And generally this also brings with it a slightly higher price, which most "power users" are okay with for the functionality they're looking for.

[tsaimelv]

why not a SD card with USB dongle... I would love to connect my iriver 20g drive to my x30!!

This would be nice, but for some reason there never seems to be any SD card devices that have a dongle. You can get SD devices for bluetooth, wifi, etc. but nothing that has a cable extending from them. Only compactflash cards do this. It's probably because SD cards are too thin, and it would be impractical to have any sort of connector hanging from the top of an SD card.

There are also power supply issues... USB host requires significant amounts of power (because the cable itself can supply power to slave devices) and perhaps the SDIO power draw specifications prevents USB host cards from being realistic.