USB Host

FallN · 10-26-04, 02:22 PM

I've seen "USB Host" mentioned a ton of times in regards to what the X50 is lacking. Can anyone tell me what it is, how it works and why it's so darn important?

Thanks in advance. :approve:

10-26-04, 02:25 PM

it lets you use any usb device that has a win ce usb driver and that can be powered by the device or powered on its own

FallN · 10-26-04, 02:35 PM

So is it a USB port on the bottom of the PPC or something? And what type of USB decives could be used in this manner?

Thanks.

10-26-04, 02:37 PM

it would be like the usb port on a pc, but doesn't exist on the Axims.
You'd be able to plug any usb device (that some has drivers for) into your Axim, and use it from your Axim.

tsaimelv · 10-26-04, 03:23 PM

In layman's terms, USB has two basic modes, "host" and "slave". Scanners, printers, keyboards, and USB flash drives, for example, have USB slave ports, which can only be plugged into a USB host port on a PC (or other USB host device). These slave devices cannot actively connect to another USB peripheral, they are "dumb" devices. USB host devices contain the networking stack and intelligence that allows connections to up to (128?) slave devices if you use one or more USB hubs.

The PXA27x chip found on most recent PDAs contains full hardware support for USB host, but for some reason, dell and HP have decided to only have a USB slave port on their PPCs (the PXA27x supports both host and slave modes).

IF your pda has a USB host port, then WM2003SE already has built-in drivers for devices such as keyboards and USB mass storage devices (hard drives, USB flash memory drives, etc.). But there are not that many available drivers on WM2003SE. Perhaps some 56k modem drivers are lurking around? But I doubt you'll be connecting your laser printer to a PPC any time soon, for example.

FallN · 10-26-04, 04:03 PM

Wow! So technically speaking, if a PPC had a USB Host dealy set up, one could hook up a USB printer or a USB keyboard DIRECTLY to said PPC?

That would totally kick some major ass! Why aren't the manufacturers pumping out high end devices with this ability? Are there any PPCs out now that have native USB Hosting?

Dermot81 · 10-26-04, 04:15 PM

Yeah, I don't know why they aren't making units with USB Host :(

I know, there isn't official driver support for many of the peripherals, but I'm sure developers in the PPC community could create workable drivers if the hardware supported it.

Seems like it could be a great selling point, for new customers, if they were told they could use many of these existing USB devices with their PPC.

cmattcline · 10-26-04, 04:18 PM

The new Asus models have a dongle cable that you plug into the sync /power port which allows you to connect usb devices. reviewers said that mouse and keyboard work flawless, but haven't test other hardware yet.

Dermot81 · 10-26-04, 04:34 PM

Yeah I know they sell CF USB Host cards, but they are expensive and I'd prefer it be integrated, but yeah, if you really wanted to, you could add USB host.

Hmm, maybe if I find a good deal on a CF USB card I can get it and stick my USB gamepad into it...Will that work? Are there drivers for something like that? That would be awsome.

FallN · 10-26-04, 04:37 PM

I see it as a HUGE selling point for people new (and old) to PPCs. To have the funcitonality of a tiny PC in the palm of your hand AND the ability to use most existing USB devices like printers, keyboards, mice, etc., would seriously pump up sales.

One of the major flaws that I see in PPCs is that they aren't "stand alone" devices, still needing the aid of a PC to properly function on many occasions including the installation of 99.999% of software... a USB Host would help to bridge the PPCs gap to autonomy. Right now, PPCs/PDAs are marketed and setup to be "PC Companions". Most people that already have a PC don't want to shell out a crap load of money for a "PC Companion" that costs more than a entry level desktop!

But the allure of having a sentient Pocket PC that can function completely on it's own, run most usb devices (printers, keybaords, mice, drives) could and would get folks that were going to buy a(nother) desktop or a laptop to purchase a PPC instead.

Personally, this is a major setback. And manufacturers wonder why many in the industry say that the PPC is dead/dying?!? They say it's a "niche market"... a "specalized piece of technology for the power user".

Well, "When you over-specialize, you breed in weakness" -Ghost in the Shell

M$ and makers better correct their little "oversight" or death of the PPC will be quickly upon us surplanted by "Smart" Mobile Phones at a fraction of the price.

tsaimelv · 10-26-04, 04:45 PM

USB host is simply not a huge selling point. 99% of people do not even know what it is, much less what it can be used for. This might cost Dell another 1% of unit costs for research and development of the USB host drivers and hardware modifications required. Not to mention the R&D costs for a new cable design that has a USB host connector - this could cost a bundle! Oh yeah, and when 100000 people call their support centers for "help" with USB host problems, compatibility, etc., that might tack on another 1% of total costs.

Bottom line is that USB host is probably a feature that costs 1% extra to incorporate and support, but contributes 0.001% of extra sales. Considering that dell probably only makes 2% profit IN TOTAL on the x50 (this is about how much the hardware and retail business makes on products), it's a no-brainer.

The very same argument can be made about 128MB of ram vs. 64.

FallN · 10-26-04, 04:53 PM

Sorry, but USB Host would get me to shell out the difference in price so that Dell would MAKE A PROFIT on including it.

I sure as Hell wouldn't buy a new laptop or a new desktop if I could have a completely autonomous PocketPC. A USB Host natively installed is a huge step closer to that autonomy.

Why not offer a "higer end" model that DOES include a USB Host and let the public have at it. Maybe market it as such:

Quote:

The Axim X500: Connect USB Devices directly to your PocketPC. Run Printers, Scanners, Keyboards and USB Drives. No need to have a PC be the middle man any more. You're free to enjoy your life. Party at 8 PM!

BYOP(Bring Your Own Printer)!

I'm not in advertising (as you can tell), but something along those lines. It would definitely get ppl's attention and help drive up sales.

Spiral · 10-26-04, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by FallN

Wow! So technically speaking, if a PPC had a USB Host dealy set up, one could hook up a USB printer or a USB keyboard DIRECTLY to said PPC?

A USB keyboard is possible. However, a USB printer is theoretically possible. Win CE really has very few USB drivers, mainly keyboard, mouse, and removeable drives. You wouldn't be able to plug-in all the whatever stuff you use on the computer like printers/scanners/what-not because they don't have the proper drivers. Drivers are a pain to write and for example, printers, it would have to be made for each printer. It's not practical.

grapeape · 10-26-04, 06:07 PM

Add me in with the 99.98% who dont give a flip about usb host. At best 99% of the devices that recieved drivers would get them from third parties as most manufacturers simply wont care about adding driver support for a platform they dont support anyway. I seriously doubt you could even convince HP to make Ipaq drivers for its own printers. I figure if I have to tie my pda down to a bunch of non-portable peripherals I might as well have a laptop and a docking station.

stevekc · 10-26-04, 06:08 PM

FWIW the following PDA have USB Host capability:

Casio: E125
Toshiba: E740, E750, E400, E800, E830
Asus: A730, A730W
Fujitsu: A70W, 410,420, 710,720,

Its a feature that has been around for several years on select PDAs, problem is that few reviewers ever point out this exists, or how to fully exploit it.