There is acctually some argument about emulators and ROM files based on the way emus work, but I feel I'm beating a dead horse.
I never said abandonware was in the public domain, just that the software companies no longer care and some even release the registration codes to the abandonware sites (abandonia is a good example of this) though the majority are still "illegal" nobody really cares.
Anyway, I think I will take your advice and stop while I'm ahead. This has gone so far off-topic that it's not even funny anyway and I get the feeling that my continued debating is doing nothing mroe than annoying everyone, mod and user alike.
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Saying that you're entitled to the AKU 3.5.2 update and that it's not illegal is like saying that, because Windows ME was based on the Windows 95/98 codebase that it's also a 'free upgrade' for you, because it's 'the same thing' and merely a service pack.
I think the situation is little bit different if you compare a PC or a PPC. They don't have the same architecture. Also when you talk about Windows ME and 95/98, I am not sure they are considered as same OS.
Every x51v owner have paid for their WM5 license so they are entitled to all WM5 aku. They are actually 3 level of aku. I guess that these aku are distributed to PPC manufacturer, so they create a new rom for they device to embed these aku. Microsoft cannot do it buy themself.
With a PC it's different because if a new SP is available you can download it by yourself and upgrade your PC by yourself.
The problem is that for these WM5 aku if Microsoft is providing the proper files to update your WM5 with a new aku level, you cannot do anything with it, because upgrading a PPC is not done by a new software installation on your device. Upgrading a PC is done by flashing a new Rom. And this new rom must be built by the manufacturer. So for the x51v, it should be done by Dell. We don't necessary need the last aku 352, but any aku 3 will solve the pie issue to have it support the x51v vga screen.
So for me yes we are entitled to all WM5 aku. But the only entitled organization to deliver it is Dell. So I guess if we want it we must claim it from Dell.
Laws do not come about because people agree that some act is morally right or wrong. Does a law eliminating habeas corpus or allowing warrantless wiretaps, suddenly change those acts from morally wrong to morally right?
As some have noted whether something is legal or not is up to interpretation, by those esteemed people we call judges. If you think judges all agree on issues, then why is the choice of a new Supreme Court justice so contentious?
The law is dynamic and changing even if the words stay the same, and it should not dictate what we think is right or wrong.
Also, it is important to realize that a "right" has no inherent meaning. For example, it has been raised that the right to free speech can be restricted in a private environment. This has nothing to do with the word "right", but simply that our nation has decided to only protect our speech from being restricted by the government. (See 1st Amendment). On the other the, the right to vote can't be restricted, even by other citizens I can't pay someone to vote a certain way or not vote. In short, calling something a "right" does not impart with some universally applicable set of characteristics.
So let's not argue whether something is a "right" or not -- it is simply another variety of argument about what the law is or is not.
So, resume discussion about what is ethically wrong or right and why.
Whilst I can understand the different views and opinions given in both sides of this discussion I think the most important fact to remember is that this website is the property of Chris and therefore his "house" and if he decides to limit the discussion to small yellow furry creatures only then so be it. And as with your "right" to vote, if you don't like it - vote with your feet! (Not starting a mutiny, just pointing out a fact!) I'm all for people having their say and giving their opinion, but when we signed up for Aximsite we agreed to be bound by it's rules and regulations and those are set by Chris...
Personally, I would like to carry on the development of this ROM so I can understand more about how my Ax works and what makes it tick because, as I mentioned before, I would like to build a ROM with my security program installed & configured to render the device useless to any thieving [not nice people]... but if that is going to brand me an 80 year old who's been leeching mp3's and bring the wrath of Mr Dell upon me then maybe I wont ...
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He who laughs last - didn't get the joke!
Whilst I can understand the different views and opinions given in both sides of this discussion I think the most important fact to remember is that this website is the property of Chris and therefore his "house" and if he decides to limit the discussion to small yellow furry creatures only then so be it. And as with your "right" to vote, if you don't like it - vote with your feet! (Not starting a mutiny, just pointing out a fact!) I'm all for people having their say and giving their opinion, but when we signed up for Aximsite we agreed to be bound by it's rules and regulations and those are set by Chris...
Agreed!
Originally Posted by MadMic
Personally, I would like to carry on the development of this ROM so I can understand more about how my Ax works and what makes it tick because, as I mentioned before, I would like to build a ROM with my security program installed & configured to render the device useless to any thieving [not nice people]... but if that is going to brand me an 80 year old who's been leeching mp3's and bring the wrath of Mr Dell upon me then maybe I wont ...
Well, I don't know about being labeled an 80year old leeching MP3s. But MS/Dell (etc) have posted EULAs stating that they disallow reverse engineering. So while reverse engineering is not illegal, it is a breach of contract on your part, and if you continue to discuss the finer points of it, a good case of conspiracy can be made for... what?... Corporate Espionage? who knows...
We Moderators simply wish to remove this entire topic. Agreements on how we approach this issue are being forged right now between Moderators, and most likely we will be asking users to take in-depth discussion of these issues to the XDA Developers forum where they belong...
Well just like anything else, I don't see how the discussion of it has anything to do with anything. Regular rules should apply, if there is links to warez the thread gets deleted and the user banned.
Whats the big deal. Where else should I talk about it other then on Aximsite? What better place for it? If not here then discussions will just take place elsewhere and that means less frequent trips to Aximsite.
Plus it's an update. Its not Windows Mobile 6. Even if it was, does that mean that if someone makes WM6 work on our Axims we can't talk about that here either? Just because Dell turned its back doesn't mean Aximsite should close their gates to its followers.
And the fact that Microsoft has it freely downloadable on their website should mean its freely distributable. You can't give something away for free and prohibit people from making it work with their devices. Plus if its free then how is it pirated?
Its not even reverse engineering. We're simply taking the drivers that are OURS and on our device and putting them elsewhere. Thats the same thing as someone accidentally deleting a certain file/files and/or registry entries and having to replace them to make it work correctly again.
This update is nothing more then the free files Microsoft has and inserting our drivers and registry keys. Even Windows Mobile 6 is up on their site I thought.
Actually, if you want to be technical and legal minded and split hairs, the drivers AREN'T ours - they're Microsoft's and HTC's. We merely have a license to use the software as-is, without any legal right or recourse to change the software unless Microsoft gives express permission to do so. Plus, the image up on their website's basically a virtual machine image, IIRC - so it's not 'freely distributable' any more than a VMWare Player's image of an OS is freely distributable.
So, if it's considered Warez by the forum moderators... it gets nuked. Very simple.
Well just like anything else, I don't see how the discussion of it has anything to do with anything.
I'm sorry that you don't understand or accept the verdict, but it is exactly that. All Hacked-ROM based discussion is barred here on Mobilitysite.
Originally Posted by player911
Regular rules should apply, if there is links to warez the thread gets deleted and the user banned.
It's hard to enforce rules when banned users just create a new profile and continue their rants.
Originally Posted by player911
Whats the big deal. Where else should I talk about it other then on Aximsite? What better place for it? If not here then discussions will just take place elsewhere and that means less frequent trips to Aximsite.
True enough. But why should a problem created by other people (Dell for not supporting the product better, Hackers for breaking EULA obligations on not reverse engineering ROM images, etc) become our problem to resolve?
Originally Posted by player911
Plus it's an update. Its not Windows Mobile 6. Even if it was, does that mean that if someone makes WM6 work on our Axims we can't talk about that here either? Just because Dell turned its back doesn't mean Aximsite should close their gates to its followers.
So you'd have no problem with me telling everyone about all the ways that they can obtain your private information to make your life a living hell for weeks and months, and then tell everyone where you work and what mistakes you've made professionally so that you can be fired for no reason. And then when you are at the end of your rope, openly talk about how they can bypass your home security system, sneak into your home for the purpose of killing you, and as long as I don't actually do it, it's legal. Right?
Originally Posted by player911
And the fact that Microsoft has it freely downloadable on their website should mean its freely distributable. You can't give something away for free and prohibit people from making it work with their devices. Plus if its free then how is it pirated?
Please provide the exact URL at Microsoft where WM5 & WM6 ROM Images are located and can be freely downloaded by ANYONE IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC (that is, not a password protected Developer account), and I'll concede this point.
Originally Posted by player911
Its not even reverse engineering. We're simply taking the drivers that are OURS and on our device and putting them elsewhere. Thats the same thing as someone accidentally deleting a certain file/files and/or registry entries and having to replace them to make it work correctly again.
You are modifying the ROM image of the OS. That is most likely reverse engineering. Call Microsoft's Chief Legal Counsel and make your proposition to them. If they are willing to send you a letter spelling out the fact that they are granting you permission to do these actions, and you can send a copy to Us, then we can talk further...
Originally Posted by player911
This update is nothing more then the free files Microsoft has and inserting our drivers and registry keys. Even Windows Mobile 6 is up on their site I thought.
Since you know where this is located, I'll let you research this further and provide us with the URL for Windows Mobile 6 on the Microsoft website, as I 40+ forums to moderate. :rolling:
I agree with the decision about this topic being on the "not allowed list" as that is the decision of those who run this site...
I will say it's been a most interesting to follow (and insert my 2pence) this discussion, which is exactly why I joined this site. It's nice to see that people feel so strongly about their Ax and can have a Adult conversation about a sensative topic without resorting to throwing toy out of prams! I would like to thank the Mods & Chris for allowing this thread to continue and allowing everyone to have their opinion... Long live Aximsite...
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He who laughs last - didn't get the joke!
Well if anyone has any desire to talk about them join, XDA and go from there that's where our russian friends' work will go unhindered.
Anything else Axim, we have here.
Well if anyone has any desire to talk about them join, XDA and go from there that's where our russian friends' work will go unhindered.
Anything else Axim, we have here.
Noiro, I was not being funny, and I know xda, I was just qestioning the fact that a new blanket policy has been announced and this thread is still open?
I would have thought it would have been closed and now there is another reference to the ROMs that should not be discussed?
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and now there is another reference to the ROMs that should not be discussed?
